Bob Barr throws his hat into the Presidnetal race
5-14-08
I'm not really sure how I feel about Bob Barr running for President. It doesn't have anything to do with Barr himself. There are a lot of different variables at play. For those who don't know who Bob Barr is, he is something that John McCain couldn't be on his best day, that is a staunch conservative. Bob is best known for leading the movement for the impeachment of Bill Clinton, and he was also the person responsible for creating the Defense of Marriage Act. The law enacted in 1996 which states that only marriages that are between a man and a woman can be federally recognized, and individual states may choose not to recognize a same-sex marriage performed in another state. I heard a conservative radio host today say that a vote for Barr is a "wasted vote". Frankly I believe if any true conservative says that voting for another conservative over a liberal moderate is a wasted vote, that so called conservative needs their head examined. A person like Barr should have been the Republican candidate instead of Juan McLame period. It's hard to predict if Barr's entrance in the race will cut into McCain's half hearted conservative support. The best way I can describe it is like this. It all comes down to who conservatives hate more between John McCain and Barack Obama. Some conservatives will vote for Barr on principal alone. A few months ago I was considering doing a write in vote, because at that time there was no way I going to vote for John McLame. Oddly enough if Obama wasn't going to be he Democrat nominee, I would entertain the thought of voting for Barr myself. Unfortunately it looks like I won't have that option. I believe that Barr has somewhat damaged his image by running on the Libertarian Ticket. He would have been better off running as an independent I believe. I know the McCain camp doesn't like the fact that Barr is in the race. This puts McCain in an odd situation. He's been so busy lately kissing the rear ends of environmental loon bats, he has angered conservatives that are barely supporting him as it is. So with that said, what can McCain possibly say to conservatives to stop them from jumping off the BS express to support Barr? In my opinion, McCain doesn't have a valid argument on why they should support him and not Barr besides the threat of Obama winning in November. Then again that might not be enough. There are conservatives that will compromise their principals for the sake of beating Obama, and then there are conservatives that will gladly lose as long as they stood on their principals doing so. As I said earlier, there is no easy answer to the variable of Bob Barr in the Presidential equation.
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 9:20 PM
15 Comments:
Fair point (that Conservatives have little reason to support McCain), but the LP has hardly had a track record for attracting votes.
As I've noted on this same topic, with Democrats in control of both Houses of Congress and the Bush tax cuts (that halved the deficit in three years and dug us out an inherited "Tech Bubble Bust" recession, exacerbated by both 9/11 and the business scandals that broke in the Summer of 2002) scheduled to expire in 2009 and 2010, it's doubtful whether McCain COULD, even he were so inclined, thwart the Democrat's determined return to the Keynesian policies that failed under Jimmy Carter.
Many investors are "shorting" the American economy post-2009 and say that all a McCain would do is to shift some of the blame for a coming disaster onto the GOP.
WHY bother?
IF we are in for a severe economic downturn (and Keynesian policies and tax hikes would assure that), then perhaps it would be best for a Democratic President to preside over that.
A first term of a "Carter-redux" would not only doom Obama to a single term (like Carter), it would very possibly drive a final stake through the heart of Keynesianism!
http://workingclassconservative.blogspot.com/2008/05/bob-barr-joins-2008-race.html
We best man up. We are in for an adventure for sure.
Yes a new candidate to give Johnny a run for his money. Bob Barr sounds far more likeable than Mr. McLame.
I'm running for the White House too. WMD for president!!
I'm a shoe in.
jmk "Fair point (that Conservatives have little reason to support McCain), but the LP has hardly had a track record for attracting votes."
I think thats the caught 22 of third parties jmk. Our country needs more then two main political parties. Third parties like the libertarian party haven't been seen in the light as being legitamte. The problem is how do other parties like the libertarians, the green party, the constitution party become main stream. With the Republican Party basically acting like the Democrat Party, voters realy don't have a choice when it comes to diverse politcal viewpoints.
jmk"Many investors are "shorting" the American economy post-2009 and say that all a McCain would do is to shift some of the blame for a coming disaster onto the GOP"
If McCain loses, he only has himself to blame jmk. He can blame conservatives all he wants, they will just laugh at him. I know I would. I do know there are certain hedge funds and major investor that are making a lot of money sell the dollar short. If there is no legitimate news to substane shorting the dollar, the dollar will rise. Shorting is only part of it, idiots in congress are robbing us blind. The amount of debt our country is carrying is reflected in the valuation of the dollar. Notice nobody in congress is mentioning this. For them to mention that their precioius pork barrel and ear marks are a direct contributor to the devaluation of the U.S Dollar and the increase in gas prices. For them its easier to blame the oil companiess instead.
JMK"IF we are in for a severe economic downturn (and Keynesian policies and tax hikes would assure that), then perhaps it would be best for a Democratic President to preside over that"
McCain is basically a democrat as it is jmk. Republicans are posed to loe big in November anyways. If Hillary was the nominee, I would have no problem letting the dems have the whitehouse and congress, but I just can't stan Obama. The political party landscape will change next year, it has too. Once upon a time in America's early history, there three major parties. The WIGS, the Federalists, and the Democrats. I don't see why it can't be that way again. Congress has an approval rating of 18% for a good reason. Both parties aren't providing leadership at all.
pamela"We best man up. We are in for an adventure for sure"
I'm thinkg this adventure for the next four years is going to be more like a real life political, economic, and social horror movie pamela.
Chilerkle"Yes a new candidate to give Johnny a run for his money. Bob Barr sounds far more likeable than Mr. McLame"
The only thing worse then John McCain are the neo suedo conservatives that actually support him chilerkle. What I mean by supportting him is people who actaully like him and what he stands for. I have yet to met an actual John McCain supporter. I have met people that will vote for him to stop Obama or Hillary, but thats it. I really wish that Hillary would get the nomination so I could actually vote for Barr instead of McCain. At least then, I could feel "clean" when I come out of the voting booth. It feels like my vote right now is being held hostage because of Obama. I have to check, but I believe Alan Keyes is also running on the constitution party ticket. Can't really say if Keyes will make a dent in McCain's support or not at this point. I hope he does.
forty two"I'm running for the White House too. WMD for president!!I'm a shoe in."
Don't quit your day job forty two just yet lol
Alan Keyes announced I think a month ago that he was running under the Constitution Party. At the time he announced he was on a couple of talk radio programs. I have not heard that he has dropped out yet.
"I think that's the catch 22 of third parties jmk. Our country needs more then two main political parties. Third parties like the libertarian party haven't been seen in the light as being legitamte." (Tyrone)
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I don't know about that Tyrone.
Look at Europe's political system, with it's multi-Party system and what a mess it is. It's difficult for ANY ideology to really take hold and move things forward over there.
I agree that some of the best ideas have sprung from the Libertarian philosophy. Walter Williams, Milton Friedman and Tom Sowell are all ("were," in Milton's case) GREAT Libertarians, who've greatly influenced America's political culture over the past quarter century.
The LP wanted to draft Walter E Williams back in 1992, but he'd have none of that...he knew that the porn lobby, "PONY" (those folks fighting for the legalization of prostitution) the "HEMP" people (the legalization of drugs crowd) all combine to make most LP gatherings look more like circuses than political events, and THAT'S why the LP isn't taken as seriously as it should be.
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"McCain is basically a democrat as it is jmk. Republicans are posed to lose big in November anyways. If Hillary was the nominee, I would have no problem letting the dems have the whitehouse and congress, but I just can't stand Obama." (Tyrone)
I too revile the ideology of Obama, and he is certainly dangerous because of that. In fact, as Leftist as John Edwards is, he's right there, if not even further to the Left than "the Breck girl."
The problem with ANY Liberal Democratic President would be with Judicial appointments, BUT Congress is already set to allow the tax cuts to expire. That will REDUCE tax revenues as higher income people defer more of their income as tax rates rise (the top 20% of income earners pay appx 80% of the income taxes) and a Cap Gains hike will reduce capital investment and contract jobs creation, from there, it's just a short orgy of Democratic social spending to an economic catastrophe (high inflation, high unemployment and high interest rates - the STAGFLATION last seen during the Carter years).
That's a path to one term ruination and despite the pain (economic dislocation) and the mischief done...it would be ironic if Barack Obama were to become this generation's Jimmy Carter...a man who came to office with a lot of hype and severe over-promising, only to preside over an economic disaster that doomed Liberalism, paving the way for over a quarter century of uninterupted Supply Side policies.
Jimmy Carter made "Liberalism" a dirty word for a generation, I know it'd be a painful lesson for all of us, but it would be ironic if Barack Obama made Liberalism a dirty word for the next.
Sidebar: The interesting is that you can document where Obama has tried to deny things he obviously said. The latest one is that he never said that he would speak with terrorist when even I know he said he would meet with our enemies without condition. At the same time after saying that Bush's policies (not meeting with our enemies without conditions) have failed, THEN he says that he would not meet with Iran until they promised to give up nukes (precondition).
I also agree that the problem with the Libertarian party are the bedfellows that hang out. Those same people were around Ron Paul (I put the 911 truthers in the same gategory).
Fair points Pamela and YES, the problem with the LP is all the kooks who've jumped on the bandwagon.
Ron Paul, ironically enough, has long been beloved in Libertarian circles....if it weren't for the 9/11 Truthers, he'd be a lot better off.
"The only thing worse then John McCain are the neo suedo conservatives that actually support him chilerkle. What I mean by supportting him is people who actaully like him and what he stands for. I have yet to met an actual John McCain supporter. I have met people that will vote for him to stop Obama or Hillary, but thats it. I really wish that Hillary would get the nomination so I could actually vote for Barr instead of McCain. At least then, I could feel "clean" when I come out of the voting booth. It feels like my vote right now is being held hostage because of Obama. I have to check, but I believe Alan Keyes is also running on the constitution party ticket."
Actually, the person running is Chuck Baldwin (who I am voting for):
http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=747
jmk"Fair points Pamela and YES, the problem with the LP is all the kooks who've jumped on the bandwagon."
That could actually be the reason JMK. That could be the main reason I've had to lukewarm opinion of the Libertarian Party.If true Libertarians were to actually promote their party's platform, they might be able to resonate their message and grow their base of support. One of the biggest problems with third parties is that they don't promote their parties except around election time. That strategy simply doesn't work.
jmk"Ron Paul, ironically enough, has long been beloved in Libertarian circles....if it weren't for the 9/11 Truthers, he'd be a lot better off."
I agree jmk. Conservatives shout down Ron Paul from the offset because of his views on 911 and Iraq. If it weren't for those issues and maybe free trade, Ron Paul might have been seen as a very viable candidate for the Republican nomination.
JMK"Many investors are "shorting" the American economy post-2009 and say that all a McCain would do is to shift some of the blame for a coming disaster onto the GOP."
I've been hearing the same thing jmk. Some conservatives are making a compelling point to actually let Obama win and have the Democrats strenghten their hold on Senate and the House. Social Security is going to go bankrupt, and Barack doesn't have a plan to save it. He wants to keep it the way it is which in reality is totally insane. Alot of the economic problems facing the United States can be placed right at the footsteps of Democrats. Obama does not have a plan to combat soaring gas prices, inflation, declining dollar etc. Letting Obama and Democrats caught a fallen knife might not be a bad idea.
You're certainly right about Third Parties only promoting their agendas around election time, but I think that's largely due to money and strategy - looking to engage people, when they're perceived to be more engaged.
As to the Libertarian Party (LP), they've had a number of giants (Milton Friedman and Walter E. Williams to name but two) and most of the good ideas the GOP's advanced have come from the LP, but that Party's proven (via its fringe...unfortunate as that may be) to be "not ready for prime time."
Idealists (like Ron Paul) tend to be naive and impractical up close. I used (and still do, to some extent) admire Ron paul's valiant fight for a return to the "Gold Standard," although even the likes of Friedman, Williams and James Buchanan and other Libertarian economists have acknowledged that such a return would come with momentous DEFLATIONARY pressures, which once unleashed can create an economic chain reaction and wreak havoc on the economy.
Reading Ron Paul is a very different experience than seing/hearing him! When I heard him parrot the isolationist view that Pat Buchanan's long endorsed, I was disappointed.
Today's world is far too inter-connected for an isolationist viewpoint. Problems in other places becoome our problems and we have a right and a destiny to seek to make the outcomes of those problems fall in our favor, just as every other nation does.
When I heard Rep. Paul parrot the inane "Truther" rantings of Rosie O'Donnell, I was convinced he was far too naive to be taken seriously.
Ironically enough, far from advancing the Libertarian agenda, Ron Paul's Presidential candidacy has seemed to have put Libertarianism back twenty years.
The problem I see is that we currently have two Parties, of which one (the Democrats) adhere to a dead ideology (socialism/Leftism/Lieralism) and the other (the GOP) has an agenda that is often at odds with and anathem to any working people's agenda (open borders for "cheap labor," corporate bailouts, etc).
The GOP should be the Party of the status quo - the highly regulated, pro-corporation agenda that has been able to deliver over a quarter century of unprecedented prosperity to America.
The Democratic party SHOULD recognize that socialism has been tried under EVERY conceivable venue and it has failed miserably in every one, because the command economy CANNOT work.
It was recently voted OUT in France and Germany and even Sweden has turned its back on the socialist model starting back in 1995.
The Democrats should take a cue from the GOP and adapt some fo the ideas from the Libertarian Party...at least their ideas WORK!
The Democrats COULD and SHOULD advance a Jeffersonian agenda of "fend for yourself" self-reliance amidst abrutally free market, with even LESS regulation amd not only lower tax rates than advanced by the GOP, but a Consumption based Tax (the Fair Tax)that was advanced by Mike Gravel in the current Primaries.
Now THAT would be a worthy choice for the American people, rather than the current "watered down socialism of Democratic Keynesianism versus the Corporatist policies of the GOP.
In any election one must look at his or her own beliefs and philosophy. From there, one must research the candidates. The moment we give in to the philosophy of the lesser of 2 evils then we as a nation truly have lost. Voting for the leader of America should not be taken lightly. If you truly vote your conscience then you have not wasted your vote. Win or lose, you have done your duty as an American voter. Let know one take away your free will and respect the opinions of others.
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