Obamacare to become the law of the land.
The people had eyes, yet they refused to see. Barack Obama claimed to love America in one breath, yet said he was going to fundamentally transform the United States of America in the next breath.
It looks like he is going to do just that. The Senate health care bill passed in the House of Representatives by seven votes and is now on it's way to Obama's desk to be signed. The socialists have won a major victory tonight and our country has suffered a huge setback. There is an old saying that goes "The biggest lie deception the devil ever committed was convincing people he didn't exist". As much as I would like to blame Obama and his band of liberals in congress for the passing of Obamacare, I have to blame some people that most people wouldn't think of. I don't blame the ignorance of gullible, naive voters who voted for Barack Obama. That would be way too easy. I blame George Bush, John McCain and the 2005 Republican congress. Five years ago, most Americans were outraged over what congress was trying to do with attempting to ram an illegal amnesty bill down the throats of the American people. George Bush, John McCain and Republicans in congress back in 2005 were the same as Democrats and Barack Obama are today in 2010. The only difference is that Democrats have succeeded in passing a bill that the majority of Americans do not want. George Bush helped to start the gears in motion of an American backlash that helped usher in Pelosi and Reid into power in 2006. The selection of John McCain who was the main spear head of Bush's amnesty bill was like icing on the cake for the Democrats. This allowed for Barack Obama to be elected and thus created the environment for which this sad chapter in American history has now unfolded. With all of that being said, the fight isn't over yet by a long shot. The two prong battle plan is as clear as day going forward. Conservative Republicans must take over control of congress in less then seven months, and a conservative must run in 2012 on the platform of repealing Obamacare as his or her first official act after being sworn in. There are going to be many lawsuits filed over this "law" by citizens, constitutional groups and even by states as well as states passing their own laws to block the federal government from infringing on their rights. As I said, this isn't over by a long shot. Once people start to see how this new law is going to adversely screw them over, they will be very upset to the point of revolt. Flying the American flag upside down is a symbol of distress. If this isn't a time of distress, then I don't know what is. Michael Savage said it best. Beware of the enemy within. That enemy has just voted to give this country poison while smiling in our faces and saying they are doing it for our own good. On a seperate note, I have to give credit and thanks to Minority Leader John Boehner. He stood on the floor of the house and told it like it is.
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 11:50 PM
22 Comments:
I really like what you're saying. The only problem that I have noticed through much observation is that democrats will NEVER blame other democrats for anything whether they are to blame or not, but republicans will blame other republicans for certain screw ups, but the problem with this (I know we do it to actually tell the truth for once) is that people hear republicans talk bad about other republicans, while democrats will NEVER talk bad about fellow democrats, and I think this really hurts the republican party when people look at it. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents worth.
They won't tell us how they voted. They know if they vote yes their goose is cooked. I'm going to find out if my state senators voted for this abomination! If they did they're history come Election time!
CB;"and a conservative must run in 2012 on the platform of repealing Obamacare as his or her first official act after being sworn in".
Such a platform would insure 35-40 million vote's that candidate "won't" get. Makes you wonder how many in congress will run on that platform in the midterms?
Some states say they will challenge the the provision for mandatory health care coverage. Yet, there are some states that already have mandatory auto insurance coverage. Can't wait to see how they handle that...
Frankly, I was not a supporter of this particular bill because it did not include the Public Option. However it's better than nothing and is a start in the right direction.
p allen "Such a platform would insure 35-40 million vote's that candidate "won't" get. Makes you wonder how many in congress will run on that platform in the midterms?"
With every poll showing that the majority of Americans don't support this bill allen, it should be very easy for candidates to run on the platform of repealing it. The kumbaya crap about insuring 35-40 million people didn't work. From the very beginning Obama, Pelosi, Reid and other Demcorats in congress had to make every backdoor deal imaginable to make this happen. They did it behind closed doors. If this bill was so popular and so justified, why didn't that American people embrace it allen? You see allen, you can't explain that away. Using your warped excuse for logic, it is justified to screw up a first class health system so 5% who don't have health insurance can be covered. Your thinking is beyond dangerous, because there is simply no rational thought behind it allen. It's all emotional and the ends justify the means with you. With Oobamacare passing it is the equivalent of believing the government is going to fix a broken leg by amputating it instead. Let me as you a question. If Obamacare is solely about helping people who aren't covered. Why is it that under this bill 17,00 IRS agents will be hired? Please connect the IRS and Healthcare if you can allen.
allen "Some states say they will challenge the the provision for mandatory health care coverage. Yet, there are some states that already have mandatory auto insurance coverage. Can't wait to see how they handle that..."
That auto insurance analogy has been played out allen. Try something different. People don't have to have auto insurance if they don't drive. This bill will MANDATE THAT PEOPLE BUY HEALTH INSURANCE.
p allen "Frankly, I was not a supporter of this particular bill because it did not include the Public Option. However it's better than nothing and is a start in the right direction."
This bill is going to lead to a public option allen. I know liberal are thick in the head but come on. This bill will ultimately destroy the private insurance market thus leaving the government as the only game in town. I can't believe you don't see that. Why anyone would be mental enough to support a universal system is beyond comprehension. You really don't give a dam about this country do you allen?
conservative thinker "only problem that I have noticed through much observation is that democrats will NEVER blame other democrats for anything whether they are to blame or not, but republicans will blame other republicans for certain screw ups, but the problem with this (I know we do it to actually tell the truth for once) is that people hear republicans talk bad about other republicans, while democrats will NEVER talk bad about fellow democrats, and I think this really hurts the republican party when people look at it. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents worth."
It really shouldn't be a problem. When you look at the Democrat Party in congress, all you see are liberals. The problem with the Republican Party is that we have too many moderates and neo conservatives then we do paleconservatives. If the Republican Party of 2005 would have been like the Republican Party of 1994. Obamacare wouldn't have come close to being law, because Obama wouldnt' have been president and Republicans would have still controlled congress. If Republicans stand on conservative principals, then there wouldn't be a need for me and others to call them out when they do wrong. We can either stand on principal or fall in line like sheep.
Sojournerlove "They won't tell us how they voted. They know if they vote yes their goose is cooked. I'm going to find out if my state senators voted for this abomination! If they did they're history come Election time!
Because they are COWARDS Sojournerlove. If they believe so much that Obamacare is what the American people want, why won't they let the American people know that they were "doing the will of the American people"? They won't do it. because they know they were screwing over the American people not looking out for them. Obama's success with this bill is a punch in the face for our country and our way of life Sojournerlove.
Tyrone, won't bother to reiterate my position on reform and universal health care. It appears to be a done deal, thus, like it not it's here. So all that's left for the opposition is to complain or attempt to repeal the law.
CB;"You really don't give a dam about this country do you allen?".
It's not that I don't give a damn about this country...I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT INSURANCE COMPANIES!! As I stated earlier, I don't like that fact that the Insurance companies will continue to play a role under this legislation. I prefer a "Public Option" to start, then eventually moving entirely to a Single Payer system.
If the insurance companies fail, so what! As a matter of fact, if they do start failing, we'll get to the Single Payer even faster!
p allen "It's not that I don't give a damn about this country...I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT INSURANCE COMPANIES!! As I stated earlier, I don't like that fact that the Insurance companies will continue to play a role under this legislation. I prefer a "Public Option" to start, then eventually moving entirely to a Single Payer system."
Lay off the Obama talking points allen will you? Spoken like a true socialist. blame the
insurance companies
oil companies
drug companies
pharmaceutic companies
medic device companies
brokerage firms
banks
where does it end allen? Basically this is the blame of capitalism. Obama has yet to demonize government, he only demonizes industries and sectors. Please tell everybody who is reading this allen how healthcare will still be top notch and cutting edge while saving hundreds of billions of dollars at the same time. So you want the government controlling the who thing right allen?
The government can do no wrong in your eyes. What is it that Obama and your fellow government dependent friends said about universal healthcare allen? "Everyone in and nobody out"? Sounds familiar allen? So what if most of Americans don't want to "be in"? I guess the will of the individuals really don't matter much right?
p allen "If the insurance companies fail, so what! As a matter of fact, if they do start failing, we'll get to the Single Payer even faster!"
You've said some pretty far out crap over the years, but what you just said takes the cake. You need help. I know you are a government dependent grab ass, but I'm not. Does that taught of taking care of your own responsibilities gives you the cold chills allen? I know you don't want universal one size fits all healthcare, because you care about your fellow citizens allen. This law will be very short lived. It just amazes me that you would accept a substandard form of healthcare as long as it doesn't cost you anything out of pocket. Unlike you allen, I value my health, and I will not leave it to the government to decide if I get treated or not.
I have not forgotten that he said he was a citizen of the world that is why I laugh at anyone who foolishly believes Obama loves this country. His apology tours and his destructive policies say otherwise!
Obama makes me sick and I hope we can reclaim congress and tie his hands or at least keep distracted him so he won't do anymore damage.
He's an egomaniac and the most dangerous sort!
Not to mention he's a rabid Anti-Semite and racist hypocrite to boot!
CB;"Lay off the Obama talking points allen will you? Spoken like a true socialist. blame the, etc...".
Socialism is hardly what this bill entails. The right-wing is using that as a "scare tactic" (and using it well I might add, because it's worked on you, and those who think like you).
And NO! I don't like to pay insurance premiums...OF ANY KIND!
I've been gouged by insurance companies for years now. Because I choose to live in the city, I pay 5 to 10 times more for home and auto insurance than the surrounding counties and towns.
Fortunately (because I have 25+ years on the job) my employer pays for my health insurance. However, for those that have been hired in the past 10 years, the contract calls for them to pay for 15 to 20 percent of their coverage, depending their date of hire.
I personally know people who pay $300-$400 a month for health insurance...OUT OF POCKET! I have an uncle on kidney dialysis who's insurance companies cut him off after 36 months of treatment. He worked at a local lumber yard for 42 years, paying "out of pocket" to insure himself and his family.
CB;"where does it end allen?".
It end's when every American has decent and affordable health care!!
CB;"Basically this is the blame of capitalism".
Actually, insurance companies aren't "capitalist." In my opinion they're "anti-capitalist."
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned, and labor, goods, services and capital are traded (to different degrees)in an open market.
For most people, and particularly those who work in small businesses, health care options are generally "not open", rather at the behest of the employer.
The non-existent externalities of the benefits or cost's in the system. Relative to the insurance company, your "health" is an externality. Can you reasonably put a price on your health?
Where else in the "free market" can a contract be canceled by the party that wrote the contract, because that party deems the "agreed" pay-out, not because they didn't earn money, rather than, is not in the companies best interests?
Because of the way insurance companies presently operate, I say TO HELL WITH EM!!!!!!
p allen "Socialism is hardly what this bill entails. The right-wing is using that as a "scare tactic" (and using it well I might add, because it's worked on you, and those who think like you)."
Where in the constitution does it give the federal government power to demand that private citizens buy health insurance allen? Just point it out to. Where in the constitution does it give the federal government the power to demand that private companies treat people for pre existing conditions? Just speak up anytime allen. Where in the constitution does it give the federal government the right to be in charge of the healthcare of our nation? I expect to you dodge and deflect those questions.
p allen "
And NO! I don't like to pay insurance premiums...OF ANY KIND!
Like I said allen, you are a freebie grabber. You want others to provide for you so you don't have to provide for yourself. Now don't you feel better being honest about the person you are? Little do you know, you are still going to be paying premiums genius, you are just going to be paying them in the form of much higher taxes. There is no such thing as free healthcare allen. Sorry to burst your Allen in Obamacare land bubble.
p allen "I've been gouged by insurance companies for years now. Because I choose to live in the city, I pay 5 to 10 times more for home and auto insurance than the surrounding counties and towns. "
Since you wanted to use your lame auto insurance comparison, if you have a car, stop driving it so you don't have to be gouged by those auto insurance companies. So once again, you'll take having second rate health care as long as you "don't have to be gouged for it"? Interesting logic. You really don't value your life much allen.
p allen "Fortunately (because I have 25+ years on the job) my employer pays for my health insurance. However, for those that have been hired in the past 10 years, the contract calls for them to pay for 15 to 20 percent of their coverage, depending their date of hire."
Pretty soon you won't have to worry about having access to the most cutting edge and state of the art medicine in the civilized world that will cost you. You can have second rate medicine that is dirt cheap, feel proud.
p allen "I personally know people who pay $300-$400 a month for health insurance...OUT OF POCKET! I have an uncle on kidney dialysis who's insurance companies cut him off after 36 months of treatment. He worked at a local lumber yard for 42 years, paying "out of pocket" to insure himself and his family."
So your logic is that we need to cut off the arm in order to save the hand? How is the government going to provide a state of the art health care system and control costs at the same time genius? Think on it allen. While you are at it, try to clap with one hand.
p allen "It end's when every American has decent and affordable health care!!"
man you are gullible allen. I've notice the argument like most liberals the "affordable health care" spew, but I've noticed that you, other liberals, Obama never talk about having
"top quality health care"
just affordable healthcare.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
Allen, if you didn't like how insurance companies operated before this bill was passed; you're going to love how they operate now. From where do you think the money to cover an additional 12 to 15 million people will come? You guessed it - those of us who already have insurance. Those of us whom are employed and productive will be paying more for insurance but getting the same (more than likely worse) benefits. Is that the change Obama prmoised we could believe in? I don't think so. Don't bother blaming the insurance companies, either. The reason insurance companies charge so much is to make up for the paltry Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements they receive from the government.
CB;"So once again, you'll take having second rate health care as long as you "don't have to be gouged for it"? Interesting logic. You really don't value your life much allen".
No, that's your logic...
Government paying for "second rate" health care is "your" belief, not mine! Presently, only poor people receive "second rate" health care. If you're poor, your have to go to the government for "any" kind of health services.
The reality is that the "anti-capitalist" insurance companies made it that way. It's the insurance companies who don't "value your life."
What the entire idea of government supplied health care is just that..."YOUR LIFE."
No, I don't believe the government should supply personal recreational desires, television, telephone, housing, an automobile, or any other comfort of American life. If worse come's to worse, someone somewhere in this country can supply any one of those things, if simply for just one day!!
However, who can you turn to if one day you pass out, and when you wake up your told you have a brain tumor? What if you're one of the millions of Americans who lost your auto making job, and then lost your, "personal recreational desires, television, telephone, housing, an automobile, and all other comforts of American life" and you health insurance?
You can buy a house or a car, and bet them a card game. If you lose, oh well, someday you could buy another and possibly do the same. You could win a house and a car, or millions of dollars simply if you bought a one dollar ticket. You can get angry with your TV or telephone and throw them off a cliff. The same goes for any other capital gains or losses you might have during your lifetime.
Your health is the only thing you can't experiment with, or take frivolously. Your health is the only thing you can't "buy back." That is, when your liver corrodes from excessive alcohol use, you can't put it in the shop and get it fixed. And buying another one isn't the easiest or cheapest thing anyone can do...
p allen "Government paying for "second rate" health care is "your" belief, not mine! Presently, only poor people receive "second rate" health care. If you're poor, your have to go to the government for "any" kind of health services."
Oh really allen? Dam you are dense. Shake the crap out of your mind for a minute and just THINK!! As doctors quit and few and few people enter the profession of medicine, because the profit potential vs the time to dedicate to get a medical education compensate won't be nowhere near worth it, THERE WILL BE FEWER DOCTORS. Few doctors will lead to long wait times in the months and years. This is just simple supply and demand allen. Put your thinking cap on allen if you can find one. Why in the hell would a pharmaceutical company spend billions in research and developement for a new drug when the government isn't going to pay them anywhere what it is worth? These are just very simplistic questions. Are you the naive to believe that the healthcare system it stands will be the same top quality once the last insurance company goes bankrupt?
p allen "The reality is that the "anti-capitalist" insurance companies made it that way. It's the insurance companies who don't "value your life."
What the entire idea of government supplied health care is just that..."YOUR LIFE."
Your mind has been scrubed clean allen. No wrinkles on your brain at all. You call the insurance companies are "anti capitalists". Think for a moments genius. The insurance companies are in business to MAKE A PROFIT. Being in business to make money is capitalism. What are you smoking man? Sometimes I think you aren't this mentally deprived, and you are just saying these things to get a rise out of me. I hope that is the case.
The symbol of anti capitalism is Barack Hussein Obama.
He has never given a speech praising the job creators and the wealth producers. All he has done is demonize them from day one. You are so glad that the insurance companies will go out of business, did it ever occur to you allen that tens of thousands of people who work in the health care industry will lose their jobs? Who cares right allen? As long as you don't have to pay for your government rationed healthcare, the ends justify the means right? A person who didn't have health insurance wasn't denied access to the best health care. Now even people who could afford health insurance won't have access to it. You can't justify your insanity allen. It just won't work. The majority of the American people value their lives, that is why they are against this.
p allen "No, I don't believe the government should supply personal recreational desires, television, telephone, housing, an automobile, or any other comfort of American life. If worse come's to worse, someone somewhere in this country can supply any one of those things, if simply for just one day!!"
Of course I don't believe you but oh well. Now that the government is going to have control of health care allen, did the following ever occur to you? What is now stopping the federal government from dictating how you live your life from a health perspective? Now the government will have a vested interest in making sure you don't become a financial burden to a rationed government system. So the government can say that smoking is now illegal, cooking in trans fats is illegal or anything else the government deems to be not in the "public's health" is illegal. This law isn't about healthcare, it is about control over the behavior habits of the people.
p allen "However, who can you turn to if one day you pass out, and when you wake up your told you have a brain tumor? What if you're one of the millions of Americans who lost your auto making job, and then lost your, "personal recreational desires, television, telephone, housing, an automobile, and all other comforts of American life" and you health insurance?"
Is the government going to pay the people who spent 12 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical tuition the pay to compensate them for their sacrifice allen to go into the profession allen? Is Obama going to create a "medical compensation czar" to determine what the government deems fair to a doctor or surgeon? With a lack of brain surgeons in the profession due to soon excessive government regulation and sub par compensation, a person with a brain tumor will surely die before he or she is seen by the few brain surgeons that will be left. A lot of doctors and surgeons will leave the profession, because they will be overworked like crazy.
p allen "
Your health is the only thing you can't experiment with, or take frivolously. Your health is the only thing you can't "buy back." That is, when your liver corrodes from excessive alcohol use, you can't put it in the shop and get it fixed. And buying another one isn't the easiest or cheapest thing anyone can do..."
WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK OBAMACARE IS ALLEN!! IT'S AN EXPERIMENT!! This crap is socialized medicine, and it has turned out bad everywhere it has been tried. This is just fact. As I said before, good luck waiting over a year for the few liver specialists remaining in the practice. Supply and Demand can't be disputed or dismissed. This will play a huge role in the "quality" of healthcare going forward.
CB;"THERE WILL BE FEWER DOCTORS".
Is that "your" prediction, or did your conservative mentors tell you that, and you're simply repeating it like a good follower?
The fact is, you don't like the law and you "want it to fail"!! You want doctors to frown on the legislation and shy away from practicing. Do you think doctors go into the profession strictly for money? A person health is the one thing you can't capitalize on.
Mind you, there are "some" doctors that practice solely for the money. However, I'm willing to bet you that "most" doctors practice according to the principles of the modern Hippocratic Oath.
Doctors who leave the practice of medicine do so for two main reasons; high rates for malpractice insurance or practicing where patients can't pay even enough for the doctor to survive. Even in these cases most don't leave the "medical profession", they just stop practicing.
Yet, both of those reasons are addressed in the new law. Here in Detroit, several hospitals have closed over the last 5 years. Why did they close? Because two few patients had insurance or the ability to pay. Fewer hospitals means fewer doctors, nurses and other staff.
So now, with the new law in place, what would be the "common sense" approach to having more insured people? Wouldn't it sense to have more hospitals where they could use this "new found" insurance??
With malpractice premiums closely regulated and guided, along with more people having insurance which allows doctors to at least get paid for their services, wouldn't it make sense for more doctors to return to the practice??
Those who oppose "any government involvement" with the health care system are not using a common sense approach. That's why I believe there are many in the opposition who aren't opposing President Obama based on the policy, but for other nefarious reasons.
As for you Tyrone, I believe you're just following the conservative hogwash laid out for you by your mentors.
CB;"WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK OBAMACARE IS ALLEN!! IT'S AN EXPERIMENT!! This crap is socialized medicine, and it has turned out bad everywhere it has been tried".
The "experiment" began with Medicaid and Medicare. The experiment is over. The findings now are that expansion is needed!!
You also claim that Medicare and Medicaid are "socialized medicine." So you're telling the millions of Americans that use them that they don't work? Can you tell that to the dialysis patient that been using Medicaid for 4, 5, 6 years, that his Medicaid doesn't work?
You've been "instructed" not to care about those things, that's why you make such ignorant claims. You've been instructed and convinced to defend an industry that operates entirely against your best interests.
Almost everyone human being(99.9%) will become sick from something during their lifetime. HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T MAKE MONEY FROM PEOPLE BEING SICK!
Being that health insurance companies make money from healthy people, wouldn't it make sense, with their enormous profits, for insurance companies to offer "free gym memberships", or vouchers for healthy foods? There are plenty of incentives they could offer to help people make healthy choices. How about diversifying or investing in vitamins, health foods, organic trade to benefit the environment and the economy??
But no! Your money "floats" around to earn them even larger profits, still with no consumer incentives.
p allen quoting me "Is that "your" prediction, or did your conservative mentors tell you that, and you're simply repeating it like a good follower"
No genius, unlike you allen, I am a huge supporter of using common sense. Doctors have said themselves that they will retire if Obamacare becomes law. I know your factually challenged allen, but please try and keep up. It doesn't take talking points to understand this allen, so I will try and explain it to you the best I can. Doctors are not going to get paid what they are now once Obamacare kicks in. Why would anyone sacrifice 12+ years of their lives to study medicine just to be overworked, massively in debt and not be able to make a decent living allen? Use your brain. Why are the wait times to see a doctor in Canada and Great Britain so long as compared to ours? It's all supply and demand allen. Just prove me wrong allen.
p allen "The fact is, you don't like the law and you "want it to fail"!! You want doctors to frown on the legislation and shy away from practicing. Do you think doctors go into the profession strictly for money? A person health is the one thing you can't capitalize on."
You got me allen, you figured it out all on your own. I want this second rate socialist rationing health care law to fail. Guilty as charged and proud of it allen. Most of Americans want it to fail to, so it looks like I am not alone thank goodness. Obamacare is going to fail anyways. That is why states are suing the federal government, because they know what kind of damage this law is going to do to their state financially. You can't dispute that allen. If Obamacare is great, people would be celebrating not organizing and buying their time to election day to start the process of repealing it. Once again, you can't dispute it.
p allen "Do you think doctors go into the profession strictly for money? A person health is the one thing you can't capitalize on."
Of course not, but nobody goes into a profession where the specialty training is very expensive and won't be able to cover their education once they start work in that profession either allen. Doctors like to be able to spend time with their patients. The patient doctor relationship is not going to be the same under Obamacare. So that is one incentive that use to that won't be soon. This is what Canadians are saying about their universal health care system.
"YOUR VIEW: How has Canada's doctor shortage affected your life?"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/18/yv-doctorshortage-questions.html
Canada's Doctor Shortage Worsening
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0013191
This sums it up very well
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:q17nG7WxT8wJ:www.caribbeanmedicine.com/article9.htm+doctor+shortage+in+canada&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Why would a person go $100k in debt just so he or she can end up making what an auto assembly person makes?
Here is your education allen into supply and demand and compensation
"Hawkins said that although Canada has traditionally attracted doctors from South Africa, Britain and Australia, more of them are going to the U.S. for better pay and working conditions.
http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/article7.htm
Number one reason why Canadian doctors come to the U.S to practice medicine is drum roll polease
-- Money 52%
-- Availability of medical facilities and services 51%
-- Job vacancies 45.2%
-- Clinical autonomy 37.9%
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/85323.php
P allen "The "experiment" began with Medicaid and Medicare. The experiment is over. The findings now are that expansion is needed!!"
Seriously allen, that hamster that runs around on that wheel in your head need to be taken out and shot!! NEWSFLASH LATE BREAKING NEWS, Medicare and Medicaid ARE BOTH BROKE!! So two bankrupt government entitlements need to be expanded because they are failures? ok hmmm
p allen "You also claim that Medicare and Medicaid are "socialized medicine." So you're telling the millions of Americans that use them that they don't work? Can you tell that to the dialysis patient that been using Medicaid for 4, 5, 6 years, that his Medicaid doesn't work?"
Can you show some evidence of those using them singing their praises allen?
Headline "Millions added to Medicaid as doctors flee"
http://www.khou.com/news/Millions-added-to-Medicaid-as-doctors-flee--88902012.html
"Nationwide, an additional 16 million people are going to be put in the program," said John Goodman of the National Center for Policy Analysis. "But there's no increase in doctors or nurses or hospitals, so you have a lot more people fighting for the same supply of health care."
What I've been saying all along. Supply and demand. Without the increase of doctors, nurses and surgeons there will be a need for people to be put on waiting lists to be seen. It is just common sense once again.
p allen "You've been "instructed" not to care about those things, that's why you make such ignorant claims. You've been instructed and convinced to defend an industry that operates entirely against your best interests.
I've been taught to be realist, you should try it sometime allen. Don't worry it doesn't bite. I don't know why I'm continuing to throw facts at you, you haven't comprehended one yet.
p allen "Almost everyone human being(99.9%) will become sick from something during their lifetime. HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T MAKE MONEY FROM PEOPLE BEING SICK!"
Where is the statistic to back up your claim allen? As I said before, you are factually challenged so please provide the source for that claim if you will.
p allen "Being that health insurance companies make money from healthy people, wouldn't it make sense, with their enormous profits, for insurance companies to offer "free gym memberships", or vouchers for healthy foods? There are plenty of incentives they could offer to help people make healthy choices. How about diversifying or investing in vitamins, health foods, organic trade to benefit the environment and the economy??
Here's a strange concept, why don't people take the initiative to take care of themselves instead of waiting for a company or government to give them the incentive allen? Who knows one's body better then one's self? In the bible it says that "your body is your temple". It is up individuals to take care of themselves period. Why are you so hard up on what companies make profit wise allen? How does it impact you one way or the other? I rather a company I do business with be profitable then to lose money.
p allen "But no! Your money "floats" around to earn them even larger profits, still with no consumer incentives."
If I own stock in that company, you better believe I would want that company to earn more in profit DUH. Then again, I wouldn't expect an anti capitalist such as yourself to understand that allen.
This is what Canadians are saying about their universal health care system.
"Roughly 4.1 million Canadians aged 12 or older are without a family doctor, either because they can’t find one or haven’t looked, says Statistics Canada.
"FAMILY DOCTOR"???? Those who haven't found one probably live in remote area's of the country. Additionally, the writer clearly state that some "haven't even looked." I wonder what percentage hasn't looked??
In the U.S. we have the, American Academy of Family Physicians. AAFP Praises Legislation That Expands Health Care Coverage.
CB;"Headline "Millions added to Medicaid as doctors flee".
No where in that article does it specifically state that "any doctors have fled" for anywhere!!! There is no mention of any number of doctors who have "fled", or any proposed number who will flee!! I smell a "fear mongering" headline...
CB;"Number one reason why Canadian doctors come to the U.S to practice medicine is drum roll polease
-- Money 52%".
Nuff said...
CB;"Can you show some evidence of those using them singing their praises allen?".
Right Here.
"in 2007, 56 percent of enrollees in traditional fee-for-service Medicare give their "health plan" a rating of 9 or 10 on a 0-10 scale
I used that quote from 2007 purposely because the survey was taken before the right-wings "misinformation, demonetization, scare tactics, obstruction and out-right lie's" campaign against government health care.
"Among those insured through Medicare, however, "the Medicare program" (68 percent) scores nearly as high. Among those with private insurance, "your health insurance company" earns much less trust (48 percent).
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