Obama the "centrist" or Obama "the baby killing" socialist?
How stupid do the media and the Obama worshiping hordes think normal people are? Actions speak louder then words. Obama's loyal cultists can shout to the moon until their lungs collapse that Barack Hussein Obama is a "centrist". Obama's own actions prove him to be anything other then advertised. During the Saddle back forum that McCain and Obama attended, the issue of abortion made Obama extremely uncomfortable. It's easy for him to give a tailored statement on an issue in a speech, but it's hard for Obama to give a direct response to an issue he knows that is controversial and out of the mainstream. When Warren asked Obama about his thoughts on abortion, Obama said it "was above his pay grade".
I guess now it's not beneath his pay grade as president, because Barack Obama issued an executive order yesterday to lift a ban of sending federal money to international abortion mills to perform abortions. Several questions immediately present themselves.
1. Why is the federal government funding abortions in this country?
2. Why is the federal government want to fund abortions in international countries?
3. Where is the federal government going to come up with the money to murder unborn babies in different countries?
4. With Obama's executive order lifting the ban, can Barack Obama be called a "baby killer"?
I played these clips a few months ago, but I will play it again as a means of explaining the mindset Obama has when it comes to killing innocent unborn babies.
Just words, just speeches right?
If Obama is a true Christian, then I'm Bill Gates. This is the core reason why I'm not drinking the Obama kool aid. I'm way too grounded in my convictions and beliefs to ever sell them out for the sake of Obama's being "historic". Abortion is a major issue for me. So those that want to try to fool aka sucker me and others into believing that Obama is a "middle of the road", "mainstream" or "centrist", they will be better off continuing to fool themselves. Forget "change we can believe in". If this is what Obama means by" change", I want no part of it at all.
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 8:53 PM
18 Comments:
You right-wingers and you "fake-political" ideals concerning abortion.
Tyrone, what you need to do is some serious homework.
The abortion issue is a political football which "religious conservative fundamentalist" are duped into a blind cast vote. Your conservative "messiah", Ronald Reagan, realized the large, and then growing number of Falwell/Graham/Robertson evangelicals were a viable voting bloc. Reagan "schmoozed" them with anti-abortion rhetoric and right-to-life dogma.
The fact is Reagan never put forth any serious anti-abortion legislation. The only time he made public statements condemning the practice was during election season, or to the fundamentalist types that wanted to here him say it...
Ronald Reagan signed the Mexico policy into effect in 1984...which coincidentally was an election year!
Ironically, as governor of California, Reagan signed a bill that allowed more than 1 million legal abortions! (Ronald "dead-baby" Reagan!)
What I find positively fascinating is that the black church rather black christians overwhelmingly support Barack Obama from the lay folks to the pastors and "bishops". They say that they would not vote against him based on one issue, which is absurd because I'm hard pressed to find even one reason to support him. I realize that most of these folks are just uninformed but even when given the facts they dismiss them due to the historic gravity of this election. Which prompted me to ask a few pastor friends of mine.."What are you first --black or Christian? To which I received a resounding "Black". So, we are living in perilous times from a spiritual perspective.
Allen, this isn't about Reagan, this isn't about 1984, this is about Obama saying the issue of abortion was "above his pay grade," and now is moving to greatly expand federal funding of abortion.
Reversing the Mexico City Policy. Obama wants to "end politicization" of this issue. What he means is he wants pro-lifers to be quiet and start voting Democratic.
FOCA? If that is signed into law, trust me, Roe v Wade will be more politicized than it ever was.
I guess the best way to "not be childish" as Obama would say and to "end politicization" of issues is to agree with Obama and the Democratic Party.
That murdering piece of shit Barrack Hussein Obama can go to hell and so can all of his brainwashed followers! Tyrone is right Allen you can believe what you want to believe but Obama's voting record and his friends tell me everything I need to no about this forked tongue baby killing bastard and his evil bitch of a wife!
I still feel Obama is a baby killer bastard but I shouldn't say people should go to hell! He's still a monster and fiend and I feel the same way about his wife. She's a prochoice harpy too!
Protecting the innocent is not a right winger thing it's the right thing to do period!
p allen "Tyrone, what you need to do is some serious homework. "
How do you think I've been able to educate you for all this time allen? I have been doing it with facts.
p allen "The abortion issue is a political football which "religious conservative fundamentalist" are duped into a blind cast vote."
Open your narrow liberal mind for a minute or more. Abortion is NOT a political football for religious conservatives. I've been against abortion long before I became political active. It's an issue about morality allen. You liberals don't understand and have a great detain for morality allen. A person casts their votes based on their personal beliefs on an issue. You can try to brush aside the argument for why conservatives are against abortion, because you can't defend what Obama did 48 hours ago. You liberals are as always to predictable allen. Conservatives vote according to their principals and convictions. Liberals on the other hand have no morals or convictions, so they let party affiliation dictate it. If you think that people being against the killing of innocent unborn life is nothing more then "political football", you have issues allen.
p allen "Your conservative "messiah", Ronald Reagan, realized the large, and then growing number of Falwell/Graham/Robertson evangelicals were a viable voting bloc. Reagan "schmoozed" them with anti-abortion rhetoric and right-to-life dogma."
Class is in session allen. Sit down and pay attention. Ronald Reagan wasn't for full abortion. As usual you leave out the heart of your claim. Here's the details you fail to mention about Reagan and abortion. Reagan signed the Therapeutic abortion Act of 1967.
http://www.popline.org/docs/0184/745484.html Once again allen, you made too easy for me.
Reagan was against abortion EXCEPT for the rare cases of INCEST or if the MOTHER'S LIFE WAS IN DANGER because of the pregnancy. I wish I understood why liberals have to present half truths and lies just to try and make an arugement?
p allen "
The fact is Reagan never put forth any serious anti-abortion legislation. The only time he made public statements condemning the practice was during election season, or to the fundamentalist types that wanted to here him say it..."
I just debunked your so called trump card allen. Class dismissed!!
P Allen "Ronald Reagan signed the Mexico policy into effect in 1984...which coincidentally was an election year!"
Your running on fumes allen. Reagan beat Mondall in 1984, 525 to 13 in the electoral college!!!!
Nobody in their right mind would think that slaughter happened because of the Mexico ban. Class is still dismissed for you now more so then ever.
Tyrone, making a claim that you're right without "evidence", makes "no-sense"...
CB;"Open your narrow liberal mind for a minute or more. Abortion is NOT a political football for religious conservatives"
Now tell me that Reagan and Bush are not either religious nor conservative, because Reagan "threw the football" in 84. Clinton "intercepted" (rescinded)the policy in 93. G.W. Bush recovered the "fumble" and (re-instituted)the policy. Obama "stripped" the ball (another rescind) and will run with it until...
The "goal line" is Roe v. Wade, which "ALL" politicians know WILL NEVER BE OVERTURNED! Politicians talk-the-talk, but none walk-the-walk. Before Roe v. Wade there was no conservative political talk about abortion. The only time you hear so-called conservative politicians debate the issue, is when election time rolls around and the religious conservative fundamentalist "VOTE" is at stake!!!
You readily admit that abortion is a "MORAL" issue, right? Now open your narrow "conservative" mind for a minute or more...
YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALITY!! If you want to live in a country dominated by religion or theocracy, move to a Muslim country. If you want to live in a society that does not allow abortions, move to El Salvador, Chile or the Vatican City.
Just like getting drunk on alcohol, having out-of-wedlock sex, and smoking a cigarette afterward's, Americans want ABORTION!
conservative black woman " What I find positively fascinating is that the black church rather black christians overwhelmingly support Barack Obama from the lay folks to the pastors and "bishops".
It doesn't come as a surprise to me at all conservative black woman. One of the first books I've read that completely opened my eyes to the falsehood of the black church was "SCAM" How the black leadership exploits black America by Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. I had a chance to listen to Rev. Peterson interview "liberal" black pastors, and I was absolutely shocked at what they believed as being moral and Christian. These fake preachers seem to care more about preaching about race then about salvation and damnation. When churches with all black congregations have corrupt black pastors, it becomes very easy for the pastor to poison the minds of their congregation and completely ignore what is right according to scripture aka Jerimiah Wright, Otsis Moss, Joseph Lowery, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton etc. Most blacks don't support abortion or homosexuality. In California, most blacks voted overwhelmingly against PROP8 that would have legalized gay marriage, HOWEVER they overwhelmingly voted for Barack Obama.
conservative black woman "They say that they would not vote against him based on one issue, which is absurd because I'm hard pressed to find even one reason to support him. I realize that most of these folks are just uninformed but even when given the facts they dismiss them due to the historic gravity of this election."
They used the "I won't vote against him because of one issue" as a cop out excuse. It all came down to race as you said, they just couldn't have been honest and say it. The "historic gravity" of Obama might as well been them worshiping him as the "golden calf". It only showed who truly false and weak these pseudo Christians truly are.
conservative black woman"What are you first --black or Christian? To which I received a resounding "Black". So, we are living in perilous times from a spiritual perspective."
I just sake my head and sigh. Our country is becoming more morally bankrupt by the day. They can worship Obama as an idol all they want. In the end Obama won't be able to save them from their actions. Race has taken on the form of a god, but this fake god has no power what so ever.
CB;"Class is in session allen. Sit down and pay attention. Ronald Reagan wasn't for full abortion. As usual you leave out the heart of your claim. Here's the details you fail to mention about Reagan and abortion. Reagan signed the Therapeutic abortion Act of 1967"
Quite the contrary... As usual you are reading something other than what I've wrote or said...
Like this statement in your last post;
p allen ""What are you first --black or Christian? To which I received a resounding "Black". So, we are living in perilous times from a spiritual perspective."
P. Allen said that??? I must be getting to your brain...
anyways, as I was saying...
I never said Reagan was, or was not for "full abortion". My statement was to show that even he played the abortion issue like a "political football". After signing the bill into law, Reagan claimed that he didn't understand what he was signing. (Hmmmmm? A governor that doesn't understand legislation?? Can you say...Sarah Palin??)
While I do believe that Reagan, as an individual, was what you refer to as "pro-life", he still understood the gravity of the religious conservative voting bloc. Yet he was not as blatant and dishonest as a "Mitt Romney." Reagan stuck to his anti-abortion stance for the rest of his political career.
CB;"I just debunked your so called trump card allen. Class dismissed!!"
You've "debunked" nothing! How can you debunk something that was never said???
I said; The fact is Reagan never put forth any serious anti-abortion legislation.
DEBUNK THAT! Show me the Reagan anti-abortion legislation...
Read the post again Tyrone...I don't have to lie, the words speak for themselves.
P Allen;"Ronald Reagan signed the Mexico policy into effect in 1984...which coincidentally was an election year!"
CB;Your running on fumes allen. Reagan beat Mondall in 1984, 525 to 13 in the electoral college!!!
Duhhhh? You must be "high the fumes" Tyrone. The policy was put in place in "JANUARY, 84". At that time there wasn't even a Democratic nominee. Hell, Reagan might have thought that he was going to have to run against Jesse Jackson in the "NOVEMBER" general election! To run on the Democratic platform, even Jackson changed his stance on abortion for political purposes.
Speaking of political football what about hate crime legislation and racism. The way the left uses racism to trash people rather than challenge racist beliefs tells me that hate is political football for the left. I view killing innocent babies to be a moral issue and it reflects poorly on a country that prizes itself and human rights and freedom.
I believe a nation that doesn't protect the weak and helpless is a morally corrupt and barbaric nation regardless of whether it's a republic,democracy or dictatorship.
Chilerkle rants and raves!;"That murdering piece of shit Barrack Hussein Obama can go to hell and so can all of his brainwashed followers! Tyrone is right Allen you can believe what you want to believe but Obama's voting record and his friends tell me everything I need to no about this forked tongue baby killing bastard and his evil bitch of a wife!"
Whoa!
Tyrone might think he is, but he "is not right" Chil, Tyrone has an "opinion", such as you and I.
Let me make myself perfectly clear. I would not say those things about you or no one else, and "definitely not" simply because I disagree with their politics!
Yet, I would be willing to bet that if you were to say to the Obama's what you've said here, they would say the same about you and your family...
Abortion: When a man begot he inserted the penis inside of a female and the sperm wiggled until it found its egg, then the begot, which began, was begotten. A new life not the same life of the man or womaN, BUT A NEW LIFE. wATERMELON SEEDS ARE BLACK OR BROWN, AND WILL REMAIN SEEDS, UNTIL PLANTED AND GERMINATED AND REACHES the size of a nice juicy red inside and green outside. Then chilled and we have a nice cool slice of fruit. If we dont plant the seed we have no melon.
Likeise, when the sperm meets the egg, we have anew life. If we leave it alone, we have a baby, then later an adult. If we dont want the pregnancy, either dont have sex, use a condom, birth control. Pregnancy begin at the moment of conception.
Islam says it is not a baby until the 4th month. MAny so-called preachers say so too. A child is not an adult until she grows up. If she is killed at 5 she will never grow up. If she is aborted at 5 weeks, she will never be born.
It is still murder at 5 weeks or 5 months. I know some babaies who lived and are now adults born at 5 months. I wonder if Obama will abort his children.
I give Saran Palin all of the credit for not aborting her child even though she knew he was not well. Afterall, he was a new life.
Blacks have killed over 14 million black babies since 1965.
Tyrone,
There were folks in the early to middle of the 1800s who were saying we cannot legislate morality and we cannot invade the privacy of certain folks. Guess what issue I am talking, and who those folks were? A good comeback at liberals.
"YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALITY!! If you want to live in a country dominated by religion or theocracy, move to a Muslim country. If you want to live in a society that does not allow abortions, move to El Salvador, Chile or the Vatican City."
Was slavery a moral issue?
Was child labor at the end of the 19th century a moral issue?
Was the issue of the rights of women a moral issue?
If we cannot legislate morality, then we should not have any laws against any forms of murder. Not just abortion.
Laws against murder are based on societal consensus that murder violates our greatest sense of morality.
Saying we cannot legislate morality is an empty phrase. The alternative you have is make laws at the whim of the majority, an oligarchy, or a tyrant.
It is a view ZERO of the founding fathers, even the more deistic or less Christian in faith ones, hold to.
Tran, first off, let me make something perfectly clear. Tyrone says that for him and other religious conservatives abortion is a "moral" issue. I have no problem with it, because that's the way he see's it. If he says it's a moral issue to him, that's fine. If it's a moral issue to you, that's fine also.
Tran;"Was slavery a moral issue?"
It is!!! If you believe slavery is wrong or morally reprehensible. Slave owner's obviously didn't see it as "immoral." Since it has been challenged, then "abolished" and written into the Constitution of the United States, in this country, it is a "legal issue". A settled and dead legal issue, but a legal issue nevertheless.
Tran;"Was child labor at the end of the 19th century a moral issue?"
Again, yes it was. But now there are "laws" against it, and no legal football to throw around...
Tran;"Was the issue of the rights of women a moral issue?"
Yes it was. Mind you I said it "WAS". If you discriminate against women now, it's your own moral issue, which by the way is "your personal choice and decision".
Do you see now how morals can't be legislated?
However, what's considered legal, is another issue!
Tran;"If we cannot legislate morality, then we should not have any laws against any forms of murder. Not just abortion."
Now you're not making sense Tran...
Okay, I'll go "silly" with you. Just pass a law against cocaine and heroin, people will stop using them, right?. Wanna stop homosexuality? Just pass a law! How about masturbation? Suicide. Out-of-wedlock sex. Picking boogers. Farting in public...
Tran;"Laws against murder are based on societal consensus that murder violates our greatest sense of morality"
On that one, you are correct sir... because it "VIOLATES" one's sense of morality. The key word there is "VIOLATE"...such as in...THE LAW!
However, that the is one idea you should keep in mind. "Murder" is a "legal" term, which means "the law" (or the societal consensus) determines what is murder, and what is not. Abortion is legal.
Thus, on your own personal level, you can think of it as murder, homicide, infanticide, genocide, silicide, fratricide, sororicide, patricide, matricide, uxoricide or whatever "cide" you wish! To the immediate public, it's abortion. To the politicians, it's a political issue that garners votes, some on the left, some on the right...It all depends on which was the the ball is thrown!
"It is!!! If you believe slavery is wrong or morally reprehensible. Slave owner's obviously didn't see it as "immoral." Since it has been challenged, then "abolished" and written into the Constitution of the United States, in this country, it is a "legal issue". A settled and dead legal issue, but a legal issue nevertheless."
Regardless though according to your logic, it should never have been an issue of legislation to abolish it in the first place, since according to you, "we can't legislate morality."
"Okay, I'll go "silly" with you. Just pass a law against cocaine and heroin, people will stop using them, right?. Wanna stop homosexuality? Just pass a law! How about masturbation? Suicide. Out-of-wedlock sex. Picking boogers. Farting in public..."
Your words show how badly you miss the point.
Having laws against murder won't stop murder. Having laws against sexual assaults won't stop those either from happening. But what these laws do is to set the tone for the morality of the public on what is acceptable behavior and what is not.
I am more of a paleo-con libertarian than a neo-con Republican, so I am not exactly in favor of laws against consenting adults having gay lifestyles or laws against drugs.
But abortion involves violations of human rights- the unborn.
And your appeal to murder is legal term so the nation decides now what is murder and what is not, so that somehow to you prove it is justifiable not to have laws against abortion.
Well guess what? Issues of slavery and segregation also involved legal terms as to whether all human beings are inherently equal. If just because a nation decides makes it correct now, then by your logic, slavery and segregation were acceptable practices in those times since the nation then legally determined which humans are equal or not equal to each other.
Your arguments validate what I say- the whims of the nation and its public in your view deciding what is legal makes it right for that period. It is convenient for you to appeal to the nation's determination of what is legal as to prove it being acceptable as abortion is now, but you don't take that to its next logical conclusion and apply that logic to other points in this nation's history. Otherwise, you would not be so quick to argue that since the nation determines what is legal, that somehow makes it acceptable.
In much of the pre-Civil War Southern states, to the public, slaves were "property" and an issue of "privacy" for the slaveowners, not to be disturbed by the government.
Appealing to the whims of the public only works so well when you are not on the receiving end of violations of your rights.
The Declaration of Indepedence disagreed with your notion that our rights are not based on morality but the public's whims.
Tran;"Having laws against murder won't stop murder. Having laws against sexual assaults won't stop those either from happening."
Right! Okay! That's the point here in question... So the case should be closed?? Yet you continue???
Tran;"Well guess what? Issues of slavery and segregation also involved legal terms as to whether all human beings are inherently equal."
If "issues of slavery and segregation involve legal terms", what are those terms? What legal term Tran? What "legal term" are you talking about?
Tran;"The Declaration of Indepedence disagreed with your notion that our rights are not based on morality but the public's whims."
Okay...alright already.., since you wish to believe that "our rights are based on morality". Women have the constitutional right to have an abortion...YES THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN ABORTION! That's the extent of American morailty, that morality that you believe can be legislated....
Ohh boy!....
"Right! Okay! That's the point here in question... So the case should be closed?? Yet you continue???"
No, it refutes your argument by itself. By your logic, we should not have these laws because those laws won't prevent anything.
"Okay...alright already.., since you wish to believe that "our rights are based on morality". Women have the constitutional right to have an abortion...YES THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN ABORTION! That's the extent of American morailty, that morality that you believe can be legislated...."
According to today's Supreme Court. Now, according to you morality is legislated only by the extent of what is constitutional now according to this post.
What logic is this?
Then, by that logic, slavery is acceptable morality in the 1800s til Civil War since it was considered constitutional right then. It was considered constitutional right by Supreme Court in Dred Scott case a few years before the Civil War, and then the court also made it constitutional for segregation right before the 20th century with Plessy vs Fergusion.
So according to your logic, slavery and segregation are legislated morality that is acceptable because for those times, they were considered constitutional right.
And what legal terms is slavery involved with?
Defining personhoods of slaves (just as abortion now involved defining personhoods of babies).
Issue of whether privacy allows for trampling liberty of another (just as issue of privacy now is said to allow for trampling life of another- the unborn).
Issue of whether a person can be property of another (another thing issue of slavery and abortion have in common).
All elements of these are involved in the court cases that decided on making them constitutional rights.
The founding fathers struggled with issue of slavery, because many of them saw it as inconsistent with our founding principles. Many saw it as out immoral enough for them to work to have slavery banned in their own states and worked at federal level to make sure slavery don't spread.
By the way, there were laws against abortion and sodomy at time of founding, and I don't know any founding father against those laws, not even Jefferson.
But since you want to appeal to what is considered constiutional based apparently on what the Supreme Court said on abortion in 1973, care to know what the court said about Christianity and our laws in the first say 190 years of our existence?
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