Time to Be Heard: Glenn Beck's black conservative summit Part 2
The title of Glenn's special was "Time to Be Heard". This is my question. Why aren't black conservatives and other ethnic conservatives not being heard? I use to listen to Matt Drudge's old radio show on Sunday Nights. Drudge had a great show and I never missed a show. I loved his sarcastic wit in how he goofed on liberals in politics, the media and entertainment. His style was a lot like my own. Anyways, Matt gave up his show in order to focus more time on The Drudge Report and other activities. A radio host from Cincinnati by the name of Bill Cunningham took over for Matt. You all might know Bill for the flack he caught for using Obama's middle name of Hussein before it is now "cool" to use it. This is what steams me a bit about Bill Cunningham and other radio talk show hosts like Sean Hannity. Every time there is a "racial issue" making news, you can place a bet that "the only two black Conservatives in America" that will be invited on their shows are "Jesse Lee Peterson" and at times Roy Inus. I really didn't put two plus two together on this issue until the poster child for abstract ignorance and bad taste Leo Terrell brought it up while debating Jesse Lee Peterson on Sean Hannity's radio show last year. I have no problem with Jesse Lee Peterson personally. I was a regular caller on his old radio show. I also have his book SCAM: How the black leadership exploits Black America. This is my observation. In order for black and other ethnic conservatives to have a voice and actually "be heard" as Glenn put it, black and other ethnic conservatives must have a platform by the new media beyond only asking a select few about racial issues. Using Jesse Lee Peterson or Roy Inus very time there is a "black issue" is actually damaging to the prominence of black conservatism. When Rush Limbaugh goes on vacation or has to take days off, one of his guest hosts on occasion is Economist Walter E. William from George Mason University. I love it when Walter is a guest host. Walter is a black libertarian and has one of the sharpest and keen minds when it comes to Business and Economics. It's refreshing listening to black conservatives and libertarians discuss issues other then race all the time when on a television or radio talk show. I'm a regular caller on WCBM 680 here in Baltimore. I've gotten a lot of emails over the years by listeners who are impressed with my well thought out positions on issues through the eyes of conservatism. People who watch my YouTube videos, read the blog or hear me on the radio know that I am not a "type casted race issue only conservative". Glenn's show "Time to Be Heard was predominately about "race" as it pertains to black conservatives. Conservatism among ethnic conservatives in America will not grow unless it is displayed on" multiple topics" not just every time an issue of race surfaces. I would like to hear conservatives of different races on the issues of limited government, taxation, foreign policy, domestic issues, the economy and border security. Conservatives tell me that "I'm so brave for speaking out" on different issues since I'm a black conservative. This is what I usually tell them in response. The "oddballs" are normally the brave ones. Once there is strength in numbers among the oddballs that are openly heard, then the oddballls become the "mainstream".
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 12:03 PM
35 Comments:
As a conservative race is not my only concern. I maybe black but I love this nation because it's the only home I ever know. I don't want progressives destroying this nation and making my only home hostile to my faith.
Knowing all the freedoms I have and seeing how Canada is now a P.C. nightmare makes me glad my ancestors never made it to Canada.
I don't like how race and even gender is being used as a political ploy to undermine the very well being of this nation.
As a female I have nothing in common with the feminists because I find the black caucas and the so called Feminist movement to not speak for me in anyway.
I feel as a black American that I am just as much an individual as any white person living here. That is why I hate identity politics. My individuality is over-rided by groups that claim to represent my race and sex.
CB;"Every time there is a "racial issue" making news, you can place a bet that "the only two black Conservatives in America" that will be invited on their shows are "Jesse Lee Peterson" and at times Roy Inus".
Very true! You almost hit the "WHY" head on the nail, but you're leaving out one key aspect... "WHO" invites these two guys?? Particularly, who invites them mostly based on the fact that they're conservative and Black?
By far Sean Hannity take the cake. At the sound of a "racial issue" Hannity made it fashionable to trot out Jesse Peterson (his favorite) Eric Rush, Niger & Roy Innis, Star Parker or Michael Massey.
CB;"Using Jesse Lee Peterson or Roy Inus very time there is a "black issue" is actually damaging to the prominence of black conservatism".
Kinda' make's you feel as though you're being "USED"... doesn't it? Actually....they are being used. I'll explain why a little later.
CB;"Conservatism among ethnic conservatives in America will not grow unless it is displayed on" multiple topics" not just every time an issue of race surfaces".
I think I told you this once before Tyrone. Conservatism, in it's purest form" was meant to insure a power structure of "RICH WHITE MEN." That is the undeniable fact. The original conservative manifesto (which BTW was written by a Southern Democrat) reflects and mirrors every point and issue conservatives believe to this day.
One point in particular is the idea of "states-rights" and control of local governmental policies. Whereas "state rights" was the issue, and a defense, in almost every case in defense of segregation and white rule. From Fugitive Slave Laws to Dred Scott. From the Colfax Massacre to Plessy v. Ferguson, all were defended as states rights issues.
Look at the facts Tyrone. Who is the most conservative, let's say the "ultra-conservative" Black politician that you know?? Has he or she ever been elected to anything?? Has the Republican party ever chosen a "conservative Black" to run for any national office? Oh yeah, that's right... they chose the Black guy (Keyes) to run against the other black guy (Obama) in Illinois.
Name "ONE" Black conservative that has enough popular appeal, with not just Republicans but the American people, that can win a Senate seat, or "Palin style", energize a presidential ticket??
Almost every Black (perhaps 90%)who votes Republican, claims to be a conservative. Yet the Republican party chose the most moderate Black Republican to lead the party.
So you're right when you say that Black conservatives are being "USED." The answer "WHY" shows itself in the facts I've shown. The fact is "American conservatism" in it's purest form was (and in the minds of many, STILL IS) an exclusive club of rich and powerful White men. When it comes to "politicking" and political office, the only thing they want from all others, is your VOTE!
almondtea "As a conservative race is not my only concern. I maybe black but I love this nation because it's the only home I ever know. I don't want progressives destroying this nation and making my only home hostile to my faith."
With black liberals, it is the other way around as we both know almondtea. Everything is about race to them from th time they go to bed to the time they wake up "psychically not mentally".lol
I heard a black liberal say a few years ago that the game of pool is "racist".lol It is game where the "white" ball exercises dominance of the colored balls and it saves the black ball for last.lol lol lol lol Black liberals like any other liberal make life very interesting, it's just to bad they are a danger to the fabric of our country.
Almondtea "Knowing all the freedoms I have and seeing how Canada is now a P.C. nightmare makes me glad my ancestors never made it to Canada."
That is why when liberals say that they love America, THEY ARE LYING almondtea. If they truly loved this country, why are they constantly fighting to change it? People don't change things they claim to love. Politic Correctness is wrecking this country from the inside out. P.C is nothing more then liberal mind control. Because of it, people are acting incredibly stupid in their rationality.
p allen "Look at the facts Tyrone. Who is the most conservative, let's say the "ultra-conservative" Black politician that you know?? Has he or she ever been elected to anything?? Has the Republican party ever chosen a "conservative Black" to run for any national office? Oh yeah, that's right... they chose the Black guy (Keyes) to run against the other black guy (Obama) in Illinois."
Another weak arugument allen. How many blacks Democrats are in the U.S Senate? Obama only won the Illinois race because Jack Ryan had some damaging stuff to come out against him in his divorce to Terri Ryan. Jack Ryan as very popular in Illinois before the information came out. Face the facts, Obama beat a carpet bagger from my state of Maryland to win the seat if you want to call it that allen. Also, most of the black members of congress were elected in mostly black Democratic districts. What do you think is the racial make up of districts that Ellijah Cummings, Charlie Rangel, Sheila Lee, Maxine Waters, William Jefferson and other blacks Democrats came from allen? You can't be that naive. Obama beat a person that wasn't even a citizen of his state!! As for Republicans, about 10% of blacks identify themselves as Republicans, so naturally blacks who run as Republicans in black Democrats block districts are going to lose every time. Do I need to school you in Political Science allen? Some things are a no duh.
p allen "Name "ONE" Black conservative that has enough popular appeal, with not just Republicans but the American people, that can win a Senate seat, or "Palin style", energize a presidential ticket??"
I don't follow black conservatives on a national level for political office like that allen. Here's a question for you. Obama was called a "rising star" in the Democrat Party because he beat Allan Keyes from Maryland. If he would have lost, who would have been the next black face on the national level that would have rivaled Obama in popularity? As I stated so factually before, Obama beat a man from ANOTHER STATE to win the Senate Seat in which he was a Senator for four months before running for President. Just tell me I wrong allen, that is all I ask.
Almost every Black (perhaps 90%)who votes Republican, claims to be a conservative. Yet the Republican party chose the most moderate Black Republican to lead the party.
So you're right when you say that Black conservatives are being "USED." The answer "WHY" shows itself in the facts I've shown. The fact is "American conservatism" in it's purest form was (and in the minds of many, STILL IS) an exclusive club of rich and powerful White men. When it comes to "politicking" and political office, the only thing they want from all others, is your VOTE!
CB;"Another weak arugument allen".
How "weak" can my argument be when you can't even answer the question?? Only "strong" arguments leaves the opposition without answers!
Look Tyrone, it's you that said;
"I would like to hear conservatives of different races on the issues of limited government, taxation, foreign policy, domestic issues, the economy and border security".
Those are "POLITICAL" issues! It takes political clout to be listened to, be "HEARD" and taken seriously on those issues. It takes "POLITICAL" representation in government to effectively address those issues.
IF A BLACK CONSERVATIVE CAN'T GET ELECTED, HOW IN THE HELL WILL THE BLACK CONSERVATIVE BE HEARD?????
CB;"Face the facts, Obama beat a carpet bagger from my state of Maryland to win the seat if you want to call it that allen".
That's the definition of a "weak" argument Tyrone!!
In 2001 "carpetbagger" Hillary Clinton beat "home born and grown" Congressman, Rick Lazio, for the Senate seat in New York. Enough for your "carpetbagger" theory???
CB;"What do you think is the racial make up of districts that Ellijah Cummings, Charlie Rangel, Sheila Lee, Maxine Waters, William Jefferson and other blacks Democrats came from allen?.
What do you think is the racial make-up of the United States Tyrone....??? Where Democrat President Barack Hussein Obama who is black came from??? You can't be that naive...
CB;"I don't follow black conservatives on a national level for political office like that allen. Here's a question for you. Obama was called a "rising star" in the Democrat Party because he beat Allan Keyes from Maryland".
YES! Beating Keyes had nothing to do with his popularity.
Here's a question for you....Why can't you answer my question???
I asked you to name "ONE" black conservative that is popular enough in any political party to get elected to national office. You can't do it, so next I'll ask;
Name any Black conservatives elected as Governor, State Legislator, Mayor, City Council, City Commissioner or Ombudsman.
Tyrone, it's you who opened conversation. It's you who's questioning the "Black conservatives" role in American politics. Basically, I'm agreeing with you, particularly when you cite the "FACT" that Black conservatives are being "USED" by the party of their choice.
It's like you're seeing what the problem is, yet you don't want to admit it. Hell, even Black conservative radio host's popularity rates lower than there liberal counterparts.
The fact is Black conservatives have no support within the Republican party, or nowhere else... FACE IT! IT'S TRUE, and the proof is exactly what you've outlined.
p allen ""I would like to hear conservatives of different races on the issues of limited government, taxation, foreign policy, domestic issues, the economy and border security".
You misunderstood what I said allen. I said black conservatives do speak out on other issues other then races in "other venues". I said national talk radio is the problem.
p allen "Those are "POLITICAL" issues! It takes political clout to be listened to, be "HEARD" and taken seriously on those issues. It takes "POLITICAL" representation in government to effectively address those issues."
what?! political clout?!! First liberals say that conservative talk show hosts are "entertainers" now they have "political clout" allen?
p allen "IF A BLACK CONSERVATIVE CAN'T GET ELECTED, HOW IN THE HELL WILL THE BLACK CONSERVATIVE BE HEARD?????"
There is you warped logic allen. One doesn't have anything to do with the other. What are you smoking man?!!lol
Yelling isn't going to make such an mental statement any more credible allen. Why in the world would anyone expect a black conservative to win in dominate black blue dog democrat districts. People tell me all the time I should run for office. I'm flattered they say it, but I know I have a snowball's chance in hell of winning in a city and district that bows to the alter of any candidate with a D by his or name. As I said before allen, it is COMMON SENSE. Bobby Jindal was elected to congress, because he ran as a conservative in a conservative representing a conservative district.
p allen "That's the definition of a "weak" argument Tyrone!!"
I told you to tell me I was wrong allen, you could only say it was a "weak argument". Thanks for proving me right. Obama beat a person who wasn't even a legal resident of the state of Illinois. The facts are what they allen.
p allen" In 2001 "carpetbagger" Hillary Clinton beat "home born and grown" Congressman, Rick Lazio, for the Senate seat in New York. Enough for your "carpetbagger" theory???"
Not really allen, you failed to mention the name recognition of Hillary Clinton being the former first lady to the legend Bill Clinton. The next time present the all the details. I can't stop chuckling believe you actually brought up Hillary. How in the world do you compare Hillary Clinton to Allan Keyes?!!lol lol lol lol Who Illinois heard of Allan Keyes prior to the Illinois Republican Party asking him to come to Illinois? Hillary was a carpetbagger, but she was a nationally recognized Democrat power power that ran in a hugely Democrat state. You have to do better then that allen.
p allen "What do you think is the racial make-up of the United States Tyrone....??? Where Democrat President Barack Hussein Obama who is black came from??? You can't be that naive..."
I know that blacks make up 13% of the population allen if that helps you. You still completely dodged my question allen. Big surprise.
p allen" YES! Beating Keyes had nothing to do with his popularity."
Keyes wasn't on Illinois soil long enough to even remotely have "popularity". The reality is as I stated. If Jack Ryan ran against Obama, Obama would have lost.
p allen "Tyrone, it's you who opened conversation. It's you who's questioning the "Black conservatives" role in American politics. Basically, I'm agreeing with you, particularly when you cite the "FACT" that Black conservatives are being "USED" by the party of their choice."
Wrong again allen. My story wasn't based on black conservatives in politics. Once again put down that Detroit special and clear your mind!!lol
I never mentioned once in both parts of my story about black conservatives running for political office, not once allen. You tried to angle your response to make this about black conservatives and political elections. Do you think I was born yesterday and did see how what was going on?lol lol lol
p allen "t's like you're seeing what the problem is, yet you don't want to admit it. Hell, even Black conservative radio host's popularity rates lower than there liberal counterparts."
For the record, I only named two national talk show hosts allen. Take from it what you will, you always do. lol
p allen "The fact is Black conservatives have no support within the Republican party, or nowhere else... FACE IT! IT'S TRUE, and the proof is exactly what you've outlined."
Conservatives in general have limited support within the Republican party. New York 23rd was the symbol of the civil war within the GOP for control of the party allen. Get with the program man. If conservatives controlled the GOP, Dede would have never been picked by the NY Republican Party and John McCain wouldn't have been the Republican candidate last year. Didn't you say that Rush Limbaugh is the leader of the Republican Party allen? If that is the case, then Sarah Palin should by unofficially have the Republican nomination all locked up right allen? Rush thinks the world of Sarah Palin right? You liberals and your screwball logic is so humorous. lol
CB;"How in the world do you compare Hillary Clinton to Allan Keyes?!!lol lol lol lol".
Alan Keyes was not from Illinois. Hillary Clinton was not from New York. Clinton won over a native born New York congressman. Keyes lost to a state legislator/community organizer.
So, a White liberal women was able to do what a Black conservative man could not do! Thats the point!
And you think being a "first lady" was the only reason for her winning? Clinton had to campaign just as hard as her opponent to get elected.
Hell, if being first lady make's it a shoe-in, Michelle Obama will be the next Senator from Maryland!
CB;"You liberals and your screwball logic is so humorous".
As I sad earlier Tyrone, you're the one that opened this conversation with the comments in "YOUR" essay.
CB;"Conservatives in general have limited support within the Republican party".
SAY WHUUUUDD??? So Sarah Palin, as a conservative, "in general has limited support" in the Republican party.... am I reading you right? If that's the case why would the Republican party be interested in running "ANY" conservative, for "ANY" office???
And, why would you say this...
CB:"The huge arena crowds came out to hear conservative Sarah Palin not moderate John McCain. Moderate candidates can't energize their bases, because moderates don't have a base to begin with".
It appears as though you're doing it again Tyrone.... you're saying anything, just to prove NOTHING!!!
Quit fumbling over your own words and just admit it Tyrone. It's as plain as the nose on your face. Sarah Palin is a "White" conservative woman. Palin's ascension in the Republican party is proof positive that a "conservative" can make waves within the Republican party. Hell, Ronald Reagan made it all the way to the top!
But I digress, as your essay was about Black conservatives, not White ones. The facts show that "Black conservatives" have absolutely "NO" support in the Republican party...or anywhere else for that mstter.
In answer to Allen's question, J.C. Watts. Elected to four terms in the U.S. House of Representatives. Next was Gary A. Franks. Elected to three terms in the U.S. House of Representatives.
Just because there aren't any black conservatives serving currently, that doesn't mean that there will not be. Unlike the democrats, we don't make a big deal about the color of fellow conservatives; we're more concerned with them holding to core conservative values. I believe Ty's point was to draw attention to the media using a small sample of black conservatives to opine when asked.
Where is the proof for this statement: Conservatism, in it's purest form" was meant to insure a power structure of "RICH WHITE MEN." That is the undeniable fact. The original conservative manifesto (which BTW was written by a Southern Democrat) reflects and mirrors every point and issue conservatives believe to this day.
I looked around and found a few things but most mirror this.
Allen, you do realize that it was the Republican Party, not the Democrat Party, that fought and won to end slavery with the 13th Amendment?
Allen said: Name any Black conservatives elected as Governor, State Legislator, Mayor, City Council, City Commissioner or Ombudsman.
Conservative Elected Officials who are black.
After the treatment that Clarence Thomas received during his Senate Confirmation hearing for nomination to the Supreme Court, I can understand why many blacks (who are conservative) don't want to enter the political arena. The Senate democrats did everything short of calling him an "unlce Thom" or "house n****r" for that period and not one black democrat came to Thomas' defense. Thomas did have the support of the Republican Party, though.
Allen said: From Fugitive Slave Laws to Dred Scott. From the Colfax Massacre to Plessy v. Ferguson, all were defended as states rights issues.
What you failed to mention in your point was that those cases were defended by "white" democrats and liberals. The Chief of the Supreme Court was a white democrat who ruled in the Dred Scott case.
It took the Republicans in Congress and the White House to enact legislation to protect newly freed slaves as well as using the army to fight the KKK.
The five member team of segregation defenders were also white. All of them were liberals and a few identified as democrat.
Frank;"In answer to Allen's question, J.C. Watts. Elected to four terms in the U.S. House of Representatives. Next was Gary A. Franks. Elected to three terms in the U.S. House of Representatives".
Neither Watts nor Franks were "happy campers" in Congress. In reading the bio you posted for Gary Franks, the writer states this;
"Ultimately, Franks’s difficulty connecting with his primarily middle-class white constituency, as well as his contentious fights with the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC), and at times, with the leadership within his own party, contributed to his political defeat".
On that same site in the J.C. Watts bio, the writers informs;
"However, Watts’s tenure in the leadership proved difficult. Despite his elevated post, Watts often felt alienated by GOP decision makers..." click HERE for the rest of the statment.
By 2008 Watts became so disgruntled he let it be known not to count his vote for John McCain.
Frank;"I looked around and found a few things but most mirror this.
Yep! That's it... that's the one!
Frank;"Allen, you do realize that it was the Republican Party, not the Democrat Party, that fought and won to end slavery with the 13th Amendment?"
Yeah...And Jim Crow Laws were inacted by Democrats. Democrats were against the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts... At one time in history, Democrats were responsible for 99% of the racial discrimination throughout the country! Sooooo, what's your point??
Blacks shouldn't vote Democrat because of the history of the Democratic party, is that what you're saying? That seems a bit "shallow and petty." In the history of this country Black's weren't allowed to do many things. The U.S. govenment at one time segragated the Armed Forces. How about holding that against them???
You might not want to take a trip to Japan, Germany or Vietnam. To much "history" in those places....
Frank;"Allen, you do realize that it was the Republican Party, not the Democrat Party, that fought and won to end slavery with the 13th Amendment?".
Yeah...AND?
Again...whats your point?
The Republicans at the time did the right thing. All hail to the Republicans of 1865! Good job fellas'! The Democrats of 1865 were devils and scoundrels.
Okay, is there any other good guys or scoundrels from 1865?
Frank;"The Chief of the Supreme Court was a white democrat who ruled in the Dred Scott case".
Typically Supreme Court Judges aren't formally endorsed by political party. They're usually categorized in political circles as being conservatives, moderates, or liberals. It would be disingenuous to refer to the Taney court as "liberal."
Many Black conservatives say that the NAACP is now a "racist" organization. Shouldn't their positive history matter as much as the negative history of the Democrats??
I may have been reading it differently than you did, Allen. I saw nothing in the Conservative manifesto that ensured the power structure of rich, white men. There wasn't a mention of ethnicity in that article that I could detect.
As far as Watts, Franks and other elected officials; you only asked to name them. You didn't specify that they had to be "happy campers." I would expect Franks or Watts to have problems with the CBC. The CBC visited Fidel Castro earlier this year and praised him. Not exactly a shining example of liberty and freedom is Castro; being a declared communist and all. Watts wasn't the only person unhappy with the Republican Party. Tyrone and myself have stated time and again that the republicans in Congress have gotten away from core conservative principles - lower taxes, smaller government and the rights of the individual as granted by the Constitution. Watts clearly didn't take too well to McCain's support of amnesty and his soft stance on the 2nd Amendment.
The segregation in the military was directly related to laws enacted by the democrats back then. The current democrat party displays socialist ideals openly. Social justice and economic justice being touted as the thing to make things equal. According to whom? I was always taught that if I worked hard, that my hard work would be rewarded. I have and it has but not because some socialist came along to "spread the wealth."
Frank;"I may have been reading it differently than you did, Allen. I saw nothing in the Conservative manifesto that ensured the power structure of rich, white men. There wasn't a mention of ethnicity in that article that I could detect".
No, you "read" it correctly.
What you didn't "detect" is that it would have been "UNCONSTITUTIONAL" for U.S. Senators and Congressmen to offer a document (at least "in writing") that would ensure the power structure of rich White men. The 13th, 14th and 15th amendments beat em' to the punch...
Frank;"As far as Watts, Franks and other elected officials; you only asked to name them. You didn't specify that they had to be "happy campers".
That's correct...I did ask. But only because Tyrone could not, or would not answer the initial question.
I asked him to name "ONE" black conservative that is popular enough in any political party to get elected to national office. Soooooo, now I'll ask you!
Frank;"I would expect Franks or Watts to have problems with the CBC. The CBC visited Fidel Castro earlier this year and praised him".
Conservative "hacking" Frank?? Why would the CBC visit to Cuba upset "YOU"????? Is it really wrong to extend an olive branch to the Cuban's after all these years??
Did it bother you when President Bush visited Vietnam? Other congressmen had made similar visits before him!
Hell, over 50,000 Americans died in Vietnam. Other than the "Bay of Pigs" the Cubans never fired a shot in war an American soldier.
The CBC visited Cuba to extend an olive branch. Personally, I have no qualms with the gesture. Had the made the visit, let's say around Octber 1962, I would have called them traitors.
And "YOU" as a conservative are condeming the CBC's visit to Cuban???? "Not exactly a shining example of liberty and freedom is Nguyen Minh Triet; being a declared communist and all."
Frank;"The segregation in the military was directly related to laws enacted by the democrats back then".
Once again....WHAT'S YOUR POINT???
Democrat's were the party of racist attitudes from the 1700's to the 1960's. We all know this.
Perhaps I should remind you that those racist Democrats were all "WHITE." The Southern Democrats weren't racist because they were Democrats. The Southern Democrat's were racist because they were WHITE!
Frank;"The current democrat party displays socialist ideals openly".
Come on now Frank...Don't tell me you're on the "tea-party" Obama is a socialist, trip too... Odds are you've never lived in a socialist country in your life. But if you would like a complete capitalist society, free of all social programs, you'll need to eliminate;
Federal, State and Local Police & Fire Departments, The Post Service,
Jails, Medicare, SSI, Unemployment Benefits, Federal, State and City National Parks, Forest & Beaches, Public Schools & Libraries, Roads, Streets, Highways, Freeways...
just to name a few!!
"Allen, you do realize that it was the Republican Party, not the Democrat Party, that fought and won to end slavery with the 13th Amendment?"
RE: TODAYS REPUBLICAN PARTY ISNT THE SAME AS YESTERDAYS LOL
you do realize that both the DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WERE GOING THRU MASSIVE CHANGES WITH IDEOLOGIES, its funny and amusing that republicans especially the old southern farts praise lincoln when their modern ideology does not represent the republican party of that era, also you need to learn about lincolns dark side, black conservative republicans are in hige denial with that as well. licoln wanted to ship out blacks and keep less than 10% of the population who are educated.
RUTHERFORD HAYES republican turned his back on blacks and left the negro question to southern conservative whites.
Lincoln was opposed to the Freedmens BILL
Lincolns wife was a slaveholder from a slave -border state
Lincoln was creating an amnesty bill to place blacks elsewhere.
Lincoln believed southerners should be compensated
1883-Supreme court declared civil rights act unconstitutional which led to jim crow laws
"Conservatives in general have limited support within the Republican party. New York 23rd was the symbol of the civil war within the GOP for control of the party allen. Get with the program man. If conservatives controlled the GOP, Dede would have never been picked by the NY Republican Party and John McCain wouldn't have been the Republican candidate last year."
RE: THERE WAS NO GOP CIVIL WAR THE GUY WAS NOT A REPUBLICAN HE WAS A CONSERVATIVE PARTY MEMBER. IF THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHO VOTED FOR THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY MEMBER THAT SHOWS THERE LOYALTY, AND MANY SAYS PARTY DONT MEAN ANYTHING IDEOLOGY DOES.
THIS MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL, CONSERVATIVES/ NEO CONSERVATIVES RUN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, MODERATES ARE THE ONES WHO ARE OVERLOOKED
"Just because there aren't any black conservatives serving currently, that doesn't mean that there will not be. Unlike the democrats, we don't make a big deal about the color of fellow conservatives; we're more concerned with them holding to core conservative values."
RE:
LOL, thats because you dont really have a voice.if you had a voice and numbers we'd be haring race this and that as it were when republicans were helping blacks before the party was taking over by southern and western coonservatives.
"What you failed to mention in your point was that those cases were defended by "white" democrats and liberals. The Chief of the Supreme Court was a white democrat who ruled in the Dred Scott case.It took the Republicans in Congress and the White House to enact legislation to protect newly freed slaves as well as using the army to fight the KKK.
The five member team of segregation defenders were also white. All of them were liberals and a few identified as democrat"
RE:
100% WRONG THEY WERE CONSERVATIVES... your speaking about 2 parties who are not even the same anymore its like THE D AND R switched with each other
"Yeah...And Jim Crow Laws were inacted by Democrats. Democrats were against the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts... At one time in history, Democrats were responsible for 99% of the racial discrimination throughout the country! Sooooo, what's your point??"
RE:
no disresoect but you need to go back, though republicans helped blacks they werent a conservative bunch yet, the democrats were the conservatives in the south. republicans were seen as progressive radicals by southerners democrats. So if i go by your analogy and the treatment blacks recieved in the north and the south as not being americans, and were not represented by the founding fathers in the constitution its safe to say that we should not be seeing ourselves as americans either right,? Most conservatives have history connecting them to the old democrat party of segregation and racism. whats so hard for some of you to understand that their was basically people switching parties.
Also Jim crow laws started up again after rutherford hayes turned his back on blacks
Harry Truman was a bonifide racist but his tune soon changed he desegregated the military in 47 this angered alot of people, democrat conservatives walked ut on him blacks were also killed on military bases.
MLK noticed that blacks were suffering nation wide not just in the south
speaking of shitting on liberal ideolgist because of so called racist past. why be or identify as a a conservative then?
I AM CELPh
"Just because there aren't any black conservatives serving currently, that doesn't mean that there will not be. Unlike the democrats, we don't make a big deal about the color of fellow conservatives; we're more concerned with them holding to core conservative values."
RE:
LOL, thats because you dont really have a voice.if you had a voice and numbers we'd be haring race this and that as it were when republicans were helping blacks before the party was taking over by southern and western coonservatives.
"What you failed to mention in your point was that those cases were defended by "white" democrats and liberals. The Chief of the Supreme Court was a white democrat who ruled in the Dred Scott case.It took the Republicans in Congress and the White House to enact legislation to protect newly freed slaves as well as using the army to fight the KKK.
The five member team of segregation defenders were also white. All of them were liberals and a few identified as democrat"
RE:
100% WRONG THEY WERE CONSERVATIVES... your speaking about 2 parties who are not even the same anymore its like THE D AND R switched with each other
"Yeah...And Jim Crow Laws were inacted by Democrats. Democrats were against the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts... At one time in history, Democrats were responsible for 99% of the racial discrimination throughout the country! Sooooo, what's your point??"
RE:
no disresoect but you need to go back, though republicans helped blacks they werent a conservative bunch yet, the democrats were the conservatives in the south. republicans were seen as progressive radicals by southerners democrats. So if i go by your analogy and the treatment blacks recieved in the north and the south as not being americans, and were not represented by the founding fathers in the constitution its safe to say that we should not be seeing ourselves as americans either right,? Most conservatives have history connecting them to the old democrat party of segregation and racism. whats so hard for some of you to understand that their was basically people switching parties.
Also Jim crow laws started up again after rutherford hayes turned his back on blacks
Harry Truman was a bonifide racist but his tune soon changed he desegregated the military in 47 this angered alot of people, democrat conservatives walked ut on him blacks were also killed on military bases.
MLK noticed that blacks were suffering nation wide not just in the south
speaking of shitting on liberal ideolgist because of so called racist past. why be or identify as a a conservative then?
I AM CELP
Allen: What you didn't "detect" is that it would have been "UNCONSTITUTIONAL" for U.S. Senators and Congressmen to offer a document (at least "in writing") that would ensure the power structure of rich White men. The 13th, 14th and 15th amendments beat em' to the punch...
I'll ask the same - what's your point? I am well aware that some of the framers were racist (a few owned slaves), socialist (a couple wanted to go back the same system in England) and others.
Allen: I asked him to name "ONE" black conservative that is popular enough in any political party to get elected to national office. Soooooo, now I'll ask you!
Off the top of my head, David Webb. He's a local from Maryland and fills in for Andrew Wilcow's Radio Show - The Wilcow Majority. Mr. Webb has a decent following and I expect big things from him in 2010.
Allen: Conservative "hacking" Frank?? Why would the CBC visit to Cuba upset "YOU"????? Is it really wrong to extend an olive branch to the Cuban's after all these years??
Currently, we still have a trade embargo in place against Cuba. There have been substantiated reports that Cuba is actively engaged in anti-American activities. We have no such embargo against Vietnam. In fact, Vietnam has been engaged in the world trade market for some time with the U.S. participating. While we are still at odds with Vietnam's treatment of political dissidents, our relationship with Vietnam is improving; seeing as they are not engaged in anti-Americanism. So, I stand by my condemnation of Cuba. I condemn any foreign nation actively engaged in ant-American activities targeted towards our national security.
Allen: Once again....WHAT'S YOUR POINT???
That was my point. The military is governed by the government, which at that time was racist. We agree on the fact but the fact was my point in answer to your comment and question - The U.S. govenment at one time segragated the Armed Forces. How about holding that against them???
Allen: The Southern Democrat's were racist because they were WHITE!
There were plenty of white Republicans back then as well. They didn't support slavery or segregation. They fought to end it.
Allen: Come on now Frank...Don't tell me you're on the "tea-party" Obama is a socialist, trip too... Odds are you've never lived in a socialist country in your life. But if you would like a complete capitalist society, free of all social programs, you'll need to eliminate;
Federal, State and Local Police & Fire Departments, The Post Service,
Jails, Medicare, SSI, Unemployment Benefits, Federal, State and City National Parks, Forest & Beaches, Public Schools & Libraries, Roads, Streets, Highways, Freeways...
Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system. Socialism is both an economic and political system. Socialism advocates "spreading the wealth"(sound familiar?)through social intervention by the ruling party. These countries used to engage in the economic system of socialism. These countries used to practice the political system of socialism. You'll notice that current practitioners are outnumbered by former practitioners. Social democrats want to reform capitalism using federal regulation and the creation of programs that work to counteract or remove the social injustices and inefficiencies they see as inherent in capitalism.(From Wikipedia) You can argue it all you want, but that's what Obama wants and is actively working towards.
Allen: Federal, State and Local Police & Fire Departments, The Post Service,
Jails, Medicare, SSI, Unemployment Benefits, Federal, State and City National Parks, Forest & Beaches, Public Schools & Libraries, Roads, Streets, Highways, Freeways...
The ones I highlighted with bold text are the only social programs you listed. Police, Fire and Corrections are government run and thereby an extension of the government to which they serve. The Postal Service was mandated in the Constitution in Article 1, Section 8.
Blame the white man! Which white man? The ones we see, right. Why not blame both. The Arabs are caucausian. Arab MUSLIMS, not the Arab pagans and Christians, but the MUSLIMS were the ones who lied and transformed the Africans into big time slavers on the East Coast and North Africa. There would be no DRED SCOTT if the Muslims both white and black selling other West Africans to Europeans, starting with Portugal, Spain and lastly Britain. Most slaves went to South America and 10% came North. Slaves under British were freed, thanks to reading.
Frank;"I'll ask the same - what's your point?".
I'm glad you asked!
My point is what I said from the outset.... Black conservative politicians have not, and to this day are not [as Tyrone put's it] "top tier" candidates, nor promoted as "top tier" candidates in the Republican party.
That's not to say that it never will happen. I'm saying that it "hasn't" happened, and I don't see any indication that it will happen any time soon.
As for David Webb... I've never heard of him. Perhaps a Palin/Webb ticket in 2012?
Frank;"Currently, we still have a trade embargo in place against Cuba"
-"I condemn any foreign nation actively engaged in ant-American activities targeted towards our national security".
We still have an embargo in place...absolutely right! Your question should be "WHY" is the embargo still in place.
And what would make you think that China and Venezuela are in the business of defending U.S. national security interests????
The continuance of the Cuba embargo make's absolutely no sense!!! No other country in the world that I know of supports the embargo. (If there is one, let me know.) The U.S. actually loses economically by not trading with Cuba.
Frank;"The ones I highlighted with bold text are the only social programs you listed. Police, Fire and Corrections are government run and thereby an extension of the government to which they serve".
I beg to differ on that idea Frank.
Socialism; A theory or policy of social organisation which aims at or advocates the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole, and their administration or distribution in the interests of all. 2. A state of society in which things are held or used in common.
-Oxford English Dictionary-
"Held or used in common" also refers to the "STATE" park bench you sat on this summer, and the "FEDERAL" highway you drove on to get there.
Of course you don't have to go to a public school, or even use your city or states police department. However, if you do choose to do so, there's a "socialist" program in place that allows you to do so!
Now, does it mean that you live in a socialist country?? Of course not.
But if you're so paranoid (not meant to be an insult) that you believe America is becoming socialist under President Obama, wouldn't make sense get rid of all the other socialist programs first?? You know the idioms, "one weed sprouts another" and "one bad apple"... As long as other socialist program exists, you'll continue to have more popping up!
You chose Medicare, SSI, and Unemployment Benefits off of my list. Wouldn't it make sense to bundle them with the Health Care protest's? Get to the "root" of the problem. Go after those "social programs" that created all your woes!!
Allen: We still have an embargo in place...absolutely right! Your question should be "WHY" is the embargo still in place.
And what would make you think that China and Venezuela are in the business of defending U.S. national security interests????
The continuance of the Cuba embargo make's absolutely no sense!!! No other country in the world that I know of supports the embargo. (If there is one, let me know.) The U.S. actually loses economically by not trading with Cuba.
Cuba is actively engaged in espionage against the United States. That's a good enough reason for me to keep an embargo against Cuba. Currently, the U.S. is supported in it's embargo against Cuba by Israel , the Marshall Islands and Palau.
Allen: "Held or used in common" also refers to the "STATE" park bench you sat on this summer, and the "FEDERAL" highway you drove on to get there.
Of course you don't have to go to a public school, or even use your city or states police department. However, if you do choose to do so, there's a "socialist" program in place that allows you to do so!
Police, Fire, Corrections, Highways, etc... are all services provided by the government - not programs. All of them are things that are either impossible or extremely difficult for the public to buy into or the free market to cover. Hence, there is no profit in arresting criminals, putting out fires, plowing and maintaining roads, etc...
Allen: wouldn't make sense get rid of all the other socialist programs first?? You know the idioms, "one weed sprouts another" and "one bad apple"... As long as other socialist program exists, you'll continue to have more popping up!
As I explained above, Police Fire, Corrections, Highways, etc are not social programs. I've looked in numerous places and found nothing that supports your argument that Police, Fire, Highways, Corrections, etc... are examples of socialism. None of the above are even considered as social work.
Allen: You chose Medicare, SSI, and Unemployment Benefits off of my list. Wouldn't it make sense to bundle them with the Health Care protest's? Get to the "root" of the problem. Go after those "social programs" that created all your woes!!
Those and Welfare are the biggest drain on our economy. All of the programs listed above are in serious need of overhaul. What to do and how to accomplish that overhaul has been speculated by economists on both sides of the political spectrum. I don't have the answers. I do know that Medicare has about $34 trillion in unfunded liablities. The debt owed to Social Security will increase by more than $60 billion. I'd say that these are fine examples of why the government is not qualified to administrate health insurance for the entire country.
Frank;"Police, Fire, Corrections, Highways, etc... are all services provided by the government - not programs. All of them are things that are either impossible or extremely difficult for the public to buy into or the free market to cover. Hence, there is no profit in arresting criminals, putting out fires, plowing and maintaining roads, etc...".
I still beg to differ... (agree to disagree might be a better term at this time)
Extremely difficult, is a "perhaps", because I don't know anyone personally who can advise me on the difficulty of owning or running a Fire Department. As for it being an "impossibility", you're going to need to do your homework.
There are plenty private Fire Fighting Departments and companies. Here's one.
The writer of this article opine's on how Privatized Fire District Keeps Costs Low and Service High.
The "Freeman" publication is huge on the idea of Fire Fighting for Profit.
My bud's over at "Harolds Left" has THIS to say about the socialism of firemen.
Private Police. For profit Police.
Private Prisons.
I have a friend that contracts several neighborhoods to plow snow from residential streets and sidewalks owned by the city. His contracts are paid by "private owners" of the homes and business in those neighborhoods.
Now the question is "how much profit" are these companies making annually. If we use the "tea-bagger" argument and theory, one must conclude that government "socialist" ran programs and services are "unfair" competition.
Therefore, the elimination of "government socialist" police, fire, schools, hospitals, an all other services provided by the government, should improve the economic health and wealth of the country....right?
Frank;"Cuba is actively engaged in espionage against the United States. That's a good enough reason for me to keep an embargo against Cuba".
Frank, you're beating a dead horse on the Cuban Embargo idea...
The only reason the U.S. continues the embargo is vindictive enmity and animosity. Cuba's Fidel Castro was a thorn in the side of past U.S. administrations. You should know the history so there's no need to explain it any further.
What I don't understand about your argument is the fact that I know you are aware of other countries that have trade agreements with the U.S. that engage in espionage against the U.S.
Do I need to post the entire "Cox Report" from 1998 stating how China stole (ESPIONAGE) nuclear weapons secrets from the U.S.? How about a more recent report on how a Chinese operative spy "wooed" U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel James Wilbur Fondren to sell U.S. secrets.
So what's you "hang-up" with Cuba? I would be willing to bet that if Cuban and U.S. trade relations were normalized the Cuban government would find it more beneficial to cease spying activities for fear it might harm them economically. The author of the article you linked to stated this;
"Cuba is what U.S. counterintelligence officer Lt. Col. Chris Simmons calls an intelligence trafficker. Cuba barters intelligence it has acquired about the U.S. and its allies with other rogue and terrorist states. Sometimes intelligence is traded for cash and sometimes it’s traded for things like votes at the United Nations.
What little bit of information the Cubans might gather from the U.S. shows that they're opting to trade it for "CASH" or U.N. votes! If trade relations were open between the two countries, how much sense would it make for the Cubans to risk "BILLIONS" of dollars in trade, to sell a few bucks of would could be useless information?
Frank;"Those and Welfare are the biggest drain on our economy".
Welfare is the "biggest drain" on the economy?? Present "FACTS" and statistics doesn't bare that to be true...
There is no statistical evidence here in Michigan that shows that welfare poses a "drain" on the economy or economic resources in the state. In fact, since 1990 Michigan has reduced it's welfare rolls dramatically, yet the economy continues to falter.
If the welfare roll's had increased, or even stayed the same, I would be inclined to agree with you Frank.
However, since welfare payments and participants have declined (I believe in MI. by about 30% under Gov. Engler in the 1990's, and 17% under present Gov. Grandholm, totally about 47% to date). In addition, those who remain have not received increases or adjustments for inflation... Soooooo, I'm going to have to refer to your assertion as a "crock of bull"!!
Allen,
The mistake I believe that you and others are making is assuming that Police, Fire, Corrections, Highways, etc... are social programs because they are run by the government. The Postal Service is run by the government but it's not listed as a social program, social work or a social service. In fact, if you were to look up social programs, social services and social work; you'd find that Police, Fire, Corrections, etc... aren't listed as examples because they are examples of Civil Service.
The goals of civil servants (Police, Fice, Corrections, etc...) greatly vary from the goals of social workers. While both serve the community at large, they are not in the same category.
I forgot to add this in my previous reply about Cuba:
The regime of Cuba is actively engaged in systematic human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extra judicial executions.
I wasn't as clear as I should have been about Social Security, Unemployment and Welfare. Actually, I was very clear about the problems with SS and the debt associated with it.
Welfare presents it own unique problem when it comes to the economy. Welfare encourages it's recipients to remain lazy and unmotivated. It's a system that is rife with abuses, fraud and mismanagement. Why go out and get a job when the government will subsidize your lack of productivity?
Wrong Frank. Any service that's run by a government, and for use by all the people, is socialized. We can play with the semantics all day and it still won't change the reality.
A valid argument used by many conservatives, is that there nothing in the U.S. constitution that says the government should or could provide "Health Care" for all.
Federal, local and State Police are socialized services provided by the government. Why? Because there is absolutely nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says the government must protect you in your state, neighborhood or own home.
Actually the constitution grants you the right to form "Militia" and "Bear Arms." Nowhere does it call for "The State" to supply those arms nor quarter soldiers near you, for you, or to "serve or protect" you in your own state or home. The same applies to Fire prevention service.
Thus, if the government provides "any service" to the people, it is SOCIALISM!
Frank;"The regime of Cuba is actively engaged in systematic human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extra judicial executions".
The regime of CHINA is actively engaged in systematic human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extra judicial executions.
Remember that on your next trip to Wal-Mart, Target, Toys R' Us, Sears, Sams Club, Office Max, etc...
Come on now...show China some love, and hate them too!
Socialism under China is slavery. I think teachers should be paid 20 cents an hour and live in a socialized apart and receive a socialized woman or partner, and become a socialized kunlun. Wont some be special.
Allen said: Any service that's run by a government, and for use by all the people, is socialized.
I'm not playing semantics. Look up any social service, social work or social program and you'll find that Police, Fire, Corrections, etc... aren't listed as examples. I previously mentioned the U.S. Postal Service as an example. If, as you claim, those services are socialized; why aren't they classified as social services/work/programs as opposed to civil services? The military is also run by the government but it is not considered a social service, social program or social work. The government runs the I.R.S. which is also not considered a social service/program/work.
Frank;"I'm not playing semantics".
You may not believe, or "think" you are...however, that's exactly what you're doing!
The term SERVICE has more than one connotation.
If you care to take notice of what I said from the outset of this conversation, you'll find that I stated;
" But if you would like a complete capitalist society, free of all social programs".
Okay..I'll take the hit! My bad! In my haste I used the wrong term. The term I should have used (which still applies to the rest of my assertions) is Public Services, which is interchangeable with Civil Service.
Still, Police and Fire are services provided by the government whereas, the government directly employs the personnel and administers the service for society at large. It's a "socialized service."
Allen said: Still, Police and Fire are services provided by the government whereas, the government directly employs the personnel and administers the service for society at large. It's a "socialized service."
You still haven't answered my question, Allen.
Me: If, as you claim, those services are socialized; why aren't they classified as social services/work/programs as opposed to civil services?
I agree with you that Public Services and Civil Services are interchangeable. However, neither qualify as Social Service or Social Work. In all of the online dictionaries, encyclopedias and references; none equate Police/Fire/Corrections as social programs/service/work - none. If they are, as you claim socialist, why aren't they listed or classified as such?
Capitalism is more concerned with economic factors as opposed to social ones.
As a registered Democrat, and a woman of color
I found this episode of Glenn Beck more 'comical' than watching the Joe Biden vs Sarah Palin debate.
I have never witnessed a group of uneducated minorities make inaccurate historical facts regarding politics.
Please learn to distinguish the difference between Communism and Socialism. They're two separate political ideologies.
Not all Democrats are liberals. Not all Republicans are right wing conservatives.
Reverend Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are not liberals. They're demagogues. There are more White liberals than Black liberals. Proposition 8 in the state of California proved that!
You will NEVER be successful at promoting conservative ideologies through grassroot campaigns. Why? Throughout this spectacle of a show, I did not hear ONE valid Republican stance. As a registered Democrat, I would have done a better job defending the Republican Party.
As for the reference, " The Republican Party is the political party of our ancestors." Another dumb Palin comment. The ideologies of political parties have changed over the years. Times change, so do ideologies. { The Federalist Party, The Whig Party, The Republican Party, and the Democratic Party}. John Adams and John Quincy Adams were one of the first Presidents to address the indecent morality of slavery. Did you know they embraced both political parties, Republican and Democrat?
Becks conservative ideologies lean more towards Ron Paul than John Mc Cain. Unfortunately the 'idiots' on the show were not politically sophisticated enough to understand this.
Next time you attempt to 'ridicule' African-American Democrats for supporting Obama, The Black Republican Party needs to be more successful at defending their own premise.
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