Detroit: A symbol of epic failure for progressive policies and social engineering.
Detroit in many ways is like my city of Baltimore. Both have been run into the ground by progressives for decades. Detroit was just run into the ground at a much faster pace then others. Progressive do not like it when Detroit is held up by the right as the poster child in demonstrating how progressive policies tend to be like a social and economic cancer that rot cities from the inside out. Detroit has been tittering on the edge for many years now, but the end may be soon near. Mayor Dave Bing is proposing laying off 1,000 workers in an attempt to reserve cash in the cash strapped city. The municipal union AFSCME isn't happy about the mayor's proposal, and they plan on fighting it.
What part of broke the municipal unions in Detroit don't seem to comprehend? The city could be out of money by April and some are saying that is could be as early as December. This is why I have so much contempt for Public Service Unions. They are the greedy little porkers that I've long branded them as being. Detroit is in serious financial trouble, and all they can care about is themselves. Progressives always talk about "shared sacrifices", so where is it demonstrated among the municipal unions in Detroit? It's sad that the city of Detroit which was once famous for the likes of Motown and being the industrial symbol of might in America has become what it has become today. It should come as no surprise why people in the south don't want progressive transplants to relocate their.
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 2:01 PM
24 Comments:
Political patronage is the core of the Democratic Party. Always has been, always will be.
Interestingly enough, men like Milton Friedman warned us decades ago of these policies. Today, men like Thomas Sowell are still giving the warning. Will no one listen and learn from history?
Tyrone, you're a "conservative hack" to the core. Detroit's problems were not, and are not caused by so-called "progressive" or "liberal" policies. Detroit's financial crisis is rooted in the problems of the city's once automobile and manufacturing dependent economy.
While the auto industry has made a very modest comeback (due to the efforts of the federal government), hundreds of thousands of auto industry jobs are gone never to return. Ergo' Detroit's tax base!
Mind you, I more than loath the crooked politicians (Kwame Kilpatrick, Monica Conyers, ect...) who made a bad situation worse. However, even with their crooked deeds, Detroit would have suffered auto job loss, population decline, resulting in a major loss of it's tax base regardless of political ideology.
Tyrone, in 1975, before you became "politically aware", the city of New York faced bankruptcy. The then G. Ford "Republican" administration saw fit to float NYC a loan to thwart the major city catastrophe. Lo' and behold, in less than 3 years NYC's budget flipped a $1.5 billion deficit into a surplus of $200 million.
I can't tell you that Detroit needs a bailout. Yet I can tell you that Detroit needs jobs. One thing is for sure, and that is if the city lays off 1500-2000 workers, it will only add to the suffering and the problem.
Hey Ty, you know that may be the only way these Union's can be defeated and slapped around.
If you are broke, bankrupt and file that way, the Union is done. They don't have a leg to stand on. They can't fight jack if a company or business is broke and can't operate anymore.
The good news is once the existing business model is dead, so is the terms of any contractual agreements.
The bad news is at least here in Cali, employee's can call the Union back in. But if that happens, there is a new set of rules and bargaining that takes place.
I'm wondering if some laws or amendments to existing laws may need to be changed to help put some sort of salary cap's in place?
But the way I see it, these Union's are scum sucking leeches that do nothing but prevent growth.
Oh and one more thing. Brown's: 24Ravens: 17 Deal with it brah!
That is true p allen. The auto industry is the heart and soul of Detroit. When the auto and steel industry began to expand into foriegn counties Detroit was hit the hardest. Alpha male doesnt know that he is being used to spread propagada. When conservatives say that progressive policy ruined a city like Detroit they really are saying black people ruined the city. They say the word progressive or liberal to hide what they really mean.
Gerald T.
Gerald T "That is true p allen. The auto industry is the heart and soul of Detroit. "
What is your point Gerald? The auto industry is stil apart of Detroit. I guess you want to ignore that most graduates out of the Detroit Public School System are functioning illiterates who can't even read on a 5 grade reading level. Even if the Auto industry or any other industry was thriving in the Detroit are, who would hire those people who can't do basic math and read? Employers want an educated work force not a functioning literate one.
Gerald T "When the auto and steel industry began to expand into foriegn counties Detroit was hit the hardest. Alpha male doesnt know that he is being used to spread propagada.
Why is it that cities like San Francisco, San Diego, Atlanta, Seattle and others are for the most part stable yet they don't have an auto industry as their primary employer Gerald? Warning, you might actually have to use brain power on this one. The answer rests in what I previously wrote.
Gerald T "When conservatives say that progressive policy ruined a city like Detroit they really are saying black people ruined the city. They say the word progressive or liberal to hide what they really mean."
Let me guess, I must be speaking in some sort of "racist code" gerald? ;-) even though I am a conservative and am also BLACK!! lol I dont' blame you for going down that road Gerald, because that is all you know how to do. When you can't dispute the facts, you have to whip out that race card to deflect attention away from the obvious.
p allen "Tyrone, you're a "conservative hack" to the core. Detroit's problems were not, and are not caused by so-called "progressive" or "liberal" policies. Detroit's financial crisis is rooted in the problems of the city's once automobile and manufacturing dependent economy. "
I am an unapologetic conservative allen. To bad you can't just admit you are an unapologetic progressive. At least I can be honest about who I am and what I believe, you should try it sometime. The auto industry created a lot of good paying jobs for a work force that didn't need to be highly educated. As the global economy started to take shape and automation became a standard for efficiency, those jobs started to disappear. Many in Detroit beleived that they would always be able to get a UAW auto job, but reality struck. The smart thing for the Detroit government to have done decades ago was to have a major push making sure their residents were educated to work in new industries and then lower their taxes to draw in new companies to fill the void that the auto industry was creating. The state of Michigan is one of the worst states in which to do business in. What you call propaganda allen, I call reality. Three elements can either make a city thrive or run it into the ground. CRIME, EDUCATION AND TAXES
Cities that are thriving have low crime, great public schools and low to affordable taxes. People move to places where they feel safe. People move their familes to area where they know their kids will be safe and get a good education. People move to places where they can afford to live thanks to low taxation. When more people move into a city, it broadens the tax base and that helps to continue to keep the schools top notch and to make sure that there are enough police to keep crime low. Look at Detroit, everything I said is the OPPOSITE!!
High Crime, which is why people who could afford to leave have done so. A pathetic public school system which is why people with kids and could leave have. Last the taxes are so high, once again people who can afford to leave have done so. It's not rocket science allen and it isn't conservative propaganda either.
Detroit was built on unskilled labor. That was the idea when the auto industry started. People moved from all over the country to get a living wage and having little skills.
Yes I am playing a race card because its being played on you. You only notice it when a black person says it. But you dont see it when whites dupe you into playing it for them. I can show you how dense you can be. You wrote back to me that San Francisco San Diego Atlanta and Seattle were stable unlike Detroit. Then you wrote to p allen that thriving citys have low crime good public schools and low taxes. San Franciso and Atlanta have high crime rates and dont have low taxes. Seattle also has high property tax. The white folks that tell you that nonsense know that you will write about it and spread the propaganda. When they talk about Detroit its all about how black people ruined the city. When they talk about Balitimore its about how black people ruined that city. All your doing is putting a different spin on it. Your black so to the them you are as guilty as your black freinds and family.
Gerald T.
Allen! Men like Freidman and Sowell would eat you for breakfast. Seek some enlightenment and i suggest you purchase all of there books and knock off the ignorance and learn a thing or two. The policies you fools follow are what is destroying Europe and has been tainting this nation for decades. It is only the last few years that the collectivist and progressive policies have shown there true colors in full. Allen and Gerald, do you really want another four years of Obama? That cancer needs to be removed and this nation needs to be healed now.
Alright you Liberals, take a whiff of this and learn with an open mind.
http://youtu.be/-FD57ycST84
Eddie I dont know who freidman and sewell are. I do know that European economic performance is good in some countries and not so good in others. Hating Obama wont solve nothing. You see what has happened with congress because the republicans hate him. Nothing gets done. Your best bet is to vote out all the republicans and allow Obama to govern.
Gerald T.
To heck with the race card.
http://youtu.be/V6ZPg6kOBkc
Eddie;"Allen! Men like Freidman and Sowell would eat you for breakfast. Seek some enlightenment and i suggest you purchase all of there books and knock off the ignorance and learn a thing or two".
Eddie, you sound like a "brand new" conservative. Did you recently get your wings?
First off, Milton Freidman won't be eating anything for breakfast, because he's dead. Second, economics is not an "absolute science." There is no universal economic theory. Before he died Freidman admitted he misunderstood the modern monetary system, one such case being the effects of quantitve easing (QE).
I've read Freidman and Sowell. But what makes you think just because you accept their "theories" as actual centainties, that everyone else should follow suit? For every Milton Freidman there's a Joseph Stiglitz. For every Thomas Sewell, there's an Amartya Sen. All (except Sewell) are Noble Prize winners in economics. All one has to do is take your pick, left-wing or right-wing theories.
Frankly, I'm happy for you! You sound like you've found your happy medium. However you can't advise or force others to share in your infantile joy because you've found something you like.
Since you seem to believe that your recent discovery entitles you to enlighten others, allow me to share my idea of a great thinking economist. John Kay, who's writings I first read in the 1990's, is more of a "centrist" economist.
Try This.
"Eddie I dont know who freidman and sewell are. I do know that European economic performance is good in some countries and not so good in others. Hating Obama wont solve nothing. You see what has happened with congress because the republicans hate him. Nothing gets done. Your best bet is to vote out all the republicans and allow Obama to govern."
Then why don't you take the time out and discover who they are, by all means, please. Plenty of You Tube videos to be educated from. There are few men who make sense in this world and i just found a couple. Who hates Obama? I do not hate him because i do not know him personally so i could not possibly hate him. What i hate are his policy's. Who said the Republicans hate him. Has any of them stated that for the record? This is not an emotional issue i hope. Nothing gets done because Obama will not go to the center like Clinton and this just proves how far-left he really is. Obama is not governing much because his community organizing skills are not presidential material, nor is his unwillingness to be more bi-partisan. Allow him to govern and vote out all of the Republicans? Do you really want another fours years of this man? Do you want more thousand page bills that no one reads, do you want more regulations, more laws, more rules, more entitlements, more special interests, keeping the poor, poor, more taxes, less freedom, less choices, a stagnant economy? Do we really want the road to serfdom? If you want more Government, then what you are by definition is a modern collectivist in which year by year we become more authoritarian and in a few decades we might as well be Communist. You want the State and the Bureaucrats to control our lives as Government grows, tell us what to do and where to go? Or do you want maximum freedom, a private market and less Government in our lives? If not... Fine, you can go live in North Korea. A fine example of Big Government right there.
Allen, If you read Freidman and Sowell then why can't you see that the only way to freedom is by allowing as little Government as possible and as much economic freedom as possible. These ideas go back thousands of years. Free Market Capitalism is not new. Nothing is complex here Allen. You either want less Government or more. Which is it? Do you want to be a free man or are in need of big brother? It is not me forcing you to agree with these men. This is a mankind issue. This is bigger then two academics. The choice is simple. Do you want prosperity or serfdom?
"A remarkably distinguished group of economists gathered last weekend for the inaugural conference of the Institute for New Economic Thinking, an initiative of George Soros."
Really, i honestly think Soros is evil and has dangerous ideas. This man is a Big Government man. Why trust him in economic matters ever?
The bad economy is because Government got involved, simple as that. I will point out The Great Depression as a historic example and if you don't buy that, then get some historical records, text books, cross-references and personal accounts of what followed in those days. Try and prove me wrong. If you read Friedman and Sowell, you should now that by now. Did you get the memo?
That fatal attempt with your link was lame at best. The second i saw Soros, it was game over.
You Liberals want to know another interesting fact. After watching dozens of videos by these two men, most are liked more then anything else and we all know how ignorant and more liberal a lot of you tubers tend to be as it is just that type of demographic and yet they like these men. Now, why is that? Does one suppose it is because of the freedoms in which they speak of and support. Does one gather that man just wants to be free with as little Government as possible. Is that what you Liberals want as well?
And you Liberal's want another four years of this man Obama?
http://youtu.be/yt_q4FA9kUQ
"I do know that European economic performance is good in some countries and not so good in others."
Which one's? Not Greece, not Spain, Not Italy, Not France. I hate to break the news but decade's long socialist polices and big government are not working out to well over there for them.
Eddie;"There are few men who make sense in this world and i just found a couple".
Which is my point ENTIRELY! These men make sense to "YOU." Not everyone else. "YOU" found a couple that makes sense to "YOU."
Perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying last time. Again, economic theories are "NOT" based on absolute outcomes. Thus, there are thousands of theories, ergo, thousands of possible outcomes.
You have chosen which side of the economic theory spectrum that you wish to align yourself. Fine! Good for you! However you shouldn't expect that everyone you speak to, to agree with you, or Friedman, or Sewell. As I pointed out before, Friedman once admitted that one of his "theories" was wrong relative to the time he suggested the theory.
Eddie;"Really, i honestly think Soros is evil and has dangerous ideas, and, That fatal attempt with your link was lame at best. The second i saw Soros, it was game over".
That explains a lot. People you disagree with are evil and deserve no respect of their ideas. When he comes out against the social programs that helps the poorest people on the planet, call me...
In a nutshell, I believe that there are some governmental policies that negatively effect economic viability. Yet there are governmental policies which positively effect the economy. Crude example;
If poor women were "legally" allowed to sell their bodies for sex on the free an open market, millions of women, if they chose to, would have an avenue out of poverty. Yet, the pesky ole' government might require that the women have annual medical check-ups, prove to be disease free, and worse.... pay taxes!
The bottom line is "free markets" really aren't "free." Due to the moral, ethical, health concerns, or a particular preference of society, government has to set limitations on what, how, and at times where a product, service or good can be sold.
You appear to be a staunch right-winger Eddie, and thats all well and fine. Even though you may not see or believe it, I see that you can't think outside of that box. However, I do enjoy the debate and exchange, still knowing that you can't convince me that you're right.
You know Allen, at the end of the day when you really think long and hard about all this, all i am advocating here is simply Freedom, not Sowell, not Friedman, not anyone man or think tank. We all want Freedom but at what cost and from whom? Do we advocate our own choices and freedom or do we allow a bureaucrat in Government to advocate our Freedom? What do you want?
You claim i am forcing you to like Freidman or follow his ideology. Wrong, i am just using one man, one man who stands for freedom. The fact is most if not all of mankind want's to be free. No ever growing Government will make man free sir. You may want more Government but tell me this. When has in all of the history of man has too much Government ever set man free?
You pointed out Soros and yet you do not want me to "force" you to point out Friedman. I never did (Friedman was one example) but you seem like you want me to agree with Soros and his ilk. That seems hypocritical to me. When you look at the track record of Soros, do you honestly think that that man is doing good with what he is pushing for? And i am no Bush fan either. I am a Libertarian, for Liberty, for Freedom.
Eddie;"You claim i am forcing you to like Freidman or follow his ideology. Wrong, i am just using one man, one man who stands for freedom".
Perhaps I was being a bit presumptive in saying that you might "force" your idea's on others. Yet, when you use terms like, "seek some enlightenment" or, "the policies you fools follow", and "that cancer needs to be removed", it moves me to believe that you think you've found all the answers. My input and suggestion to you is that, when it comes to economic theory, none of us have all the answers. That's why economists use the terms "theory" and "hypothesis."
Eddie;"You pointed out Soros and yet you do not want me to "force" you to point out Friedman".
Oh boy...how can I say this...
Eddie, I didn't point out George Soros. The article I linked to is written by well respected economist John Kay. The article begins with Mr. Kay making a "disclosure" that he conference he attended was held by "The Institute for New Economic Thinking", which is an initiative of George Soros. The article has nothing to do with, or says anything about George Soros.
I wonder if your idea of an "evil" Soros led you to the incorrect conclusion that I was "pointing out" Soros.
Eddie;"Alright you Liberals, take a whiff of this and learn with an open mind".
Yet a misguided "thought" that George Soros is in the room, and your mind closes???
Fortunately for me, I watched the videos you linked to. I watched the FOX News interviews with Sewell. I can't say I agreed with everything he said, yet I actually "took a whiff with an open mind." But I wouldn't want to "force" you to read John Kay's writings...
Eddie;"When you look at the track record of Soros, do you honestly think that that man is doing good with what he is pushing for?".
Link to what he's "pushing for" that can or has harmed you.
Eddie;"I am a Libertarian, for Liberty, for Freedom".
I'm hearing that a lot nowadays. Answer this question;
What "freedoms" and "liberties" have you lost, or are in peril of losing?
I was born and raised in Detroit. I watched Detroit get run down over the years. Is the auto industry the problem? Part of the problem, but not all. I watched the state government run the chemical and food processing industries out of the state because they were "too polluting". I watched the state government run industries out of the state because they could not afford UAW benefits (which, ironically, it turned out the big 3 couldn't either).
Detroit got massive amounts of federal aid over the years. And, yet, it never seemed to work. Why? Too much government, too much dependency. Me? I am a chemical engineer and now work in Houston. My advice is that if you want a a future, move.
I have never lived in Detroit but have always been proud of it. It is disheartening to see it in this condition. Except for some crooked politicians, most elected officials really work for the people (these are mostly in local government). (I have spent 30 years in gov.). This may be a silly suggestion, but it could be doable. All cities speak of their immigrant past proudly. In that case why can't some of these burned out/garbage strewn areas be renovated to attract ethnic classes and become a tourist area. If they are located near safer areas it could work. There are probably magnificent churches in ruin, as well as once beautiful homes, theatres. In my home town churches were sold for $1 but they had to be restored and maintained. This could lead to festivals, art, authentic ethnic restaurants and much more.
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