Fast Food workers strike for $15 an hour but do not want to go out into the market place and earn it.
You all may have noticed yesterday or maybe you didn't, but supposedly tens of thousands of fast food workers went on strike across the country demanding $15 dollars an hour. I didn't know that non union workers could strike, apparently they can, go figure.
These type of people really irk me. They really get under my skin for several reasons. These people who feel they should make $15 an hour for doing a job that requires basically zero skill to do are clueless, and they have zero concept of how economics and business works. These people's sheer ignorance explains how the unions are able to play these dim witted malcontents for perfect suckers. Union memberships are at an all time low in the United States. Without union members there are no union dues. Without union dues, there are no rich fat hog union bosses. As always follow the money. So one way for the unions to try and replenish their hemorrhaging ranks is to try to gain new members in other non traditional union sectors. So the food service unions are pumping this notion in the minds of fast food workers that they deserve to make $15 an hours. I am a free market capitalist, and I am a staunch supporter of the free market. This elementary concept is what drives the cost of labor,yet this ultra simplistic concept is one in which progressives have a hard time wrapping their minds around for some reason. The concept is this. "Supply vs Demand" is what determines how many people find jobs in the labor market, but it also determines how much they are worth in the labor market. Flipping a hamburger or making French fries isn't rocket science. It may sound harsh, but it's the truth. A person who works in a restaurant on the other hand as a Chef makes good money. Why is that? It's because the Chef spent so many years in Culinary School learning the skill of preparing culinary dishes. His or her skill is marketable and is in demand by restaurant owners thus they are willing to pay the market rate or more for his or her skill and knowledge. A fast food worker doesn't have the skill that a Chef has thus that worker is not entitled to be on the same pay level as a Chef. It goes back to common sense, which these people clearly either do not have or are not exercising. This is the mindset of liberalism as it pertains to business.
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The one thing you'll notice by listening to liberals like her and others who think like her is that it's always the fault of the big, bad, greedy evil fast food restaurants . Of course the real problem is never them, nah. Typical liberalism, somebody or something else is always the bad guy "holding them back". In their convoluted minds it never occurs to them that they are the reason they are getting paid what they are. Here are three questions.
1. Why do people go to college?
2. Why do people go to learn a trade?
2. Why do people start their own business?
All three questions have one common answer. They do it in order to "make more money". It's like duh!! So how come these malcontents who work at fast food restaurants haven't figured out what so many others already know? This comes down to the progressive principal of "wanting something for nothing"..
They want to make close to $30,000 a year, but do not want to apply themselves in the market place to legitimately earn it.
That's what it comes down to. Why should they be close to earning on par what Secretaries, Dental Assistants, Financial Clerks, Construction Workers, Bus Drivers etc make? All the professionals I mentioned requires the applicant to have a certain skill set for the job. As the unions are leading these poor souls by their noses down the road of the illusion that they will make $15 an hour doing a minimum wage job, they better be careful, because this is what's ultimately waiting for them at the end of road if they chose to continue to stay on it.
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The one thing you'll notice by listening to liberals like her and others who think like her is that it's always the fault of the big, bad, greedy evil fast food restaurants . Of course the real problem is never them, nah. Typical liberalism, somebody or something else is always the bad guy "holding them back". In their convoluted minds it never occurs to them that they are the reason they are getting paid what they are. Here are three questions.
1. Why do people go to college?
2. Why do people go to learn a trade?
2. Why do people start their own business?
All three questions have one common answer. They do it in order to "make more money". It's like duh!! So how come these malcontents who work at fast food restaurants haven't figured out what so many others already know? This comes down to the progressive principal of "wanting something for nothing"..
They want to make close to $30,000 a year, but do not want to apply themselves in the market place to legitimately earn it.
That's what it comes down to. Why should they be close to earning on par what Secretaries, Dental Assistants, Financial Clerks, Construction Workers, Bus Drivers etc make? All the professionals I mentioned requires the applicant to have a certain skill set for the job. As the unions are leading these poor souls by their noses down the road of the illusion that they will make $15 an hour doing a minimum wage job, they better be careful, because this is what's ultimately waiting for them at the end of road if they chose to continue to stay on it.
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 1:25 AM
21 Comments:
Hell, I love to earn $15/hour! I love to earn $25/hour! But for me to earn that amount I have to work hard for it.
Not to long Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed a bill that mandates that all fast food employees must get paid $15/hour, which takes effect next April. Oh, and it gets better: now Mom and Pop businesses across the city have to pay their employees the same amount that fast food workers are getting paid.
One popular Seattle business, Dick Drive-In near the University of Washington, which for several years the establishment has offered best-in-industry employee benefits such as a matched 401(k), 100% employer-paid medical insurance, and a $22,000 college tuition scholarship after six months of work. It makes me wonder if Mayor Ed's bill is going to have a dramatic impact on Dick's?
-BP
Lunch at Micky D's already costs $10 bucks, up from $5 a few short years ago. So why would I want to spend $15? I'll just start to brown bag it, again.
Amazing that people don't understand economics even yet. The rising cost of wages and sinking skill set s what drove automation in the automotive industry. The growth of robotics to eliminate the need for workers is driven by two things: quality and lower cost per unit.
Apply that to fast food, and you have Momentum Machines. Found at momentummachines.com. Given that the average fast food restaurant spends $250,000/year on hourly employees plus payroll taxes, workers compensation insurance, uniforms, etc, doubling the labor cost brings payroll expense to over $500.000.
If Momentum Machines can deliver a machine that costs $750,000 (a very doable number given the number of machines you could sell), the return on investment is about 20 months (based on $60,000 MARCS depreciation tax savings + 80% of the $500,000 labor cost). Now, the fast food establishment needs far fewer employees and makes a bigger profit.
So, tell me again how a higher wage benefits the average worker? McDonald's employees aren't qualified to work at Momentum Machines (they are looking for Mechanical Engineers). McDonald's will need far fewer employees. Who really benefits? Hmmmmmm. The union leadership and their children who are the ones who will have the education to make it in a more automated world.
I really hope the unions win. As an owner of a company that repairs automated equipment, I stand to reap the rewards. And, no, I won't be hiring the average McDonald's worker. I will be hiring the kids of their union bosses who will have education and skills my work requires.
CB;"Why should they be close to earning on par what Secretaries, Dental Assistants, Financial Clerks, Construction Workers, Bus Drivers etc make? All the professionals I mentioned requires the applicant to have a certain skill set for the job".
Yeah! Why would people with ZERO skills want to be paid $15.00 an hour! I have a cousin who's a truck driver. Hell, he made $75,000 last year. And he can barely read! My garbage man makes $38,000. He should be making no more than a $7.25 minimum wage.
I went to Dallas over the summer. At the hotel where I stayed, I was told that the waitresses, bartenders, doormen and bellboys at the hotel can make as much as 40 to 50 grand a year. And the bellboy could barely speak English! Hell, I don't tip these "no skilled" morons. "These type of people really irk me!!!"
But I think the worse culprits are Fire Fighters. How much skill (or brains for that matter) does it take to put water on a fire? In some places in the U.S. Firemen can make up to $60,000 a year! With so many people willing to volunteer, why show we pay Firemen at all???
And bill collectors pay? What's up with that? Dog Catchers? Really???? Chasing an stray animal around with a net? And why do you Bus Drivers make so much? Driving around stopping and going...how hard is that? Hell, I'm stopping and going every morning on my way to work. No ones paying me to drive...
Every single one of these so-called "jobs" need to be restructured to pay minimum wage! As you said Tyrone, "these people really irk me!" First off, stop tipping these "no-skilled" waitresses, waiters, bartenders, bellboys and doormen. And stop spending tax dollars on high paid low skilled Firemen. Low and no skilled workers don't deserve to be paid like hard working Americans. If you want $15.00 and hour... get a real job!
Yeah right...
p allen "Yeah! Why would people with ZERO skills want to be paid $15.00 an hour!"
People who want to earn $15 dollars an hour or more do the things needed in order to obtain that desired pay rate in the marketplace. Read carefully, that usual means acquiring the knowledge to make themselves worth that to a potential employer.
p allen "I have a cousin who's a truck driver. Hell, he made $75,000 last year."
Of course allen. People who have a Class A Commercial Drivers License are in HIGH DEMAND.
There are a shortage of drivers with the necessary CDL yet there is a high demand from employers for them,so employers pay top dollar to acquire the talent who has a CDL it A person can't just come off the street and make $75k driving a tractor trailer.
p allen "My garbage man makes $38,000. He should be making no more than a $7.25 minimum wage."
Wrong, a garbage man needs a Class B Driver's License, because a trash truck in over 26,000 pounds. Also in order to remove compressed trash or bin recyclables at the plant would require a forklift, and a person must be trained to be "forklift certified" in order to operate it, again another specialty skill that everybody doesn't have thus the garbageman and forklift operator will make more then minimum wage.
p allen "I went to Dallas over the summer. At the hotel where I stayed, I was told that the waitresses, bartenders, doormen and bellboys at the hotel can make as much as 40 to 50 grand a year. And the bellboy could barely speak English! Hell, I don't tip these "no skilled" morons. "These type of people really irk me!!!"
I can you know jack about the private sector allen. Bartenders usually go to bartending school in order to learn how to make drinks and learn about how to run a bar. Once they obtain that knowledge, they will have a special skill that bars and clubs are looking for which everybody can't do. On top of that, bartenders must be licensed by their state in order to serve alcohol. So every tom dick and harry can't just hope behind a bar and serve drinks, Only specially trained and licensed people can be bartenders.. Swing and miss again allen. Waiters and Waitresses are mainly paid through the tips they earn. The minimum wage for them is far less then that of others in other industries. Waiters and Waitresses can make good money based on the service they provide and how many tables they have in a shift. Not everybody can do the jobs a waiter or waitress can do, because those jobs require a lot of organization skills, being able to stand for long periods of time and knowing how to interact with the public. Even though no special knowledge or education is required, not everybody can do that can of job, but they can still make good money at it.
Bellboys also makes their money on TIPS, but based on the service they provide, they can make good money as well. A bellboy usual has to be in good shape in order to carry heavy bags. Not everybody is in shape thus can't do that job. It's not a special skill job. Some jobs allen are the exception to the rule, but they are the exception not the norm.
Anon;"So, tell me again how a higher wage benefits the average worker? McDonald's employees aren't qualified to work at Momentum Machines (they are looking for Mechanical Engineers)".
Of course someone who serves hamburgers is not qualified mechanical engineers. I would think that most (if not all) mechanical engineers have studied, ahhh.... lets say, "mechanical engineering?"
However, innovation is what drives modern economies. The major problem is "EDUCATION", or, the lack thereof. Over the past several decades the U.S. has put education on the back burner. Its most prominent in the major cities across the country. Millions of kids (the future unemployed) are not being given the necessary basic education in order to compete and become viable assets in a high tech work place. Yet even in a high tech society there still will be a need for people who can operate, maintain and repair high tech machines and equipment. I believe, as far as education is concerned, this is where our own government is failing us.
One of the biggest shifts from education is the decline of auto mechanics and shop classes at the middle and high school levels. Here in Detroit (once the automotive capital of the world) shop classes were mandatory in my day. Today, it's hard to find even a sewing class (public, private or charter school) in most of the schools in the city and suburbs. Even the so-called "technology" based classes are a joke. For the most part the kids use the computers as typewriter/word processors, watch music videos, or to play games, and never exploring the innovative possibilities or power of the computer.
With companies moving there low skilled manufacturing to other countries, and the lack of skill trades being taught in our schools, its no wonder that so many Americans are displaced into the service and fast food industries. Unless we're willing to make some changes in the pay structure of the service industry, bring back higher paying low skilled jobs, or, "INVEST IN EDUCATION", poverty and government dependency will surely increase.
But I think the worse culprits are Fire Fighters. How much skill (or brains for that matter) does it take to put water on a fire? In some places in the U.S. Firemen can make up to $60,000 a year! With so many people willing to volunteer, why show we pay Firemen at all???
Because a firefighter does actually require skill and qualifications to be a fire fighter. Also, it's a dangerous profession, so the pay is higher.
Anyone with half a brain knows these things and the difference between a skilled firefighter an an unskilled burger flipper at McDonalds. Hell, they don't even flip burgers at McDonalds anymore. It's done by a machine!
So please, learn the difference between skilled and unskilled workers and why unskilled, entry level jobs pay less.
p allen "But I think the worse culprits are Fire Fighters. How much skill (or brains for that matter) does it take to put water on a fire? In some places in the U.S. Firemen can make up to $60,000 a year! With so many people willing to volunteer, why show we pay Firemen at all???"
More brains then think. A fireman must be certified as an EMT Emergency Medical Technician. He must also be certified as a Paramedic. On top of that he must pass the exams and field training at the Fireman Academy and at the very end he must be certified by his respective state. That sure as hell isn't no cake walk. Fireman deserve every bit of the money they make.
p allen "And why do you Bus Drivers make so much?"
Bus Drivers who drive coach or transit buses need to have a Commercial Drivers License Class B with a Passenger and Air brakes endorsement. You have to be trained in order to know how to drive a bus and to pass the DMV examination. One of the main aspects is knowing how to determine whether a bus a safe to drive. Their CDL Class B license gives them the right to earn the money they make.
Animal Control Officers must be trained and certified in the euthanasia of animals. It would appear that most of the jobs that make good or decent money requires the person to have some sort of specialized training.
p allen "Every single one of these so-called "jobs" need to be restructured to pay minimum wage! As you said Tyrone, "these people really irk me!"
Oh no, those people don't irk me at all. They make the money they make due to the skill set and training they bring to the market place. None of those jobs make well above minimum wage for a reason.
"They are well compensated for their efforts to obtain the certifications and licenses which makes them valuable to employers".
Can a burger flipper say the same? Can they?
Joe Conservative "Lunch at Micky D's already costs $10 bucks, up from $5 a few short years ago. So why would I want to spend $15? I'll just start to brown bag it, again."
These dopes seriously don't get it Joe. Beef prices are already at an all time high. The price of hamburgers in fast food places are reflecting this. I was in Micky D's today. A Big Mac, Fries and a drink is running over $6.00!! Fast food use to be about a CHEAP and CONVENIENT meal,not anymore. I rarely eat at fast food restaurants as it is, and this is an economic incentive for me not to. McDonald's sales and profits are already in a nose dive as it is. Like any product, when the price gets to a point where the consumer can do without it due to the high price versus the value to them, people will either find alternatives or they will do without that product.
p allen "But I think the worse culprits are Fire Fighters. How much skill (or brains for that matter) does it take to put water on a fire? In some places in the U.S. Firemen can make up to $60,000 a year! With so many people willing to volunteer, why show we pay Firemen at all???"
More brains then think. A fireman must be certified as an EMT Emergency Medical Technician. He must also be certified as a Paramedic. On top of that he must pass the exams and field training at the Fireman Academy and at the very end he must be certified by his respective state. That sure as hell isn't no cake walk. Fireman deserve every bit of the money they make.
p allen "And why do you Bus Drivers make so much?"
Bus Drivers who drive coach or transit buses need to have a Commercial Drivers License Class B with a Passenger and Air brakes endorsement. You have to be trained in order to know how to drive a bus and to pass the DMV examination. One of the main aspects is knowing how to determine whether a bus a safe to drive. Their CDL Class B license gives them the right to earn the money they make.
Animal Control Officers must be trained and certified in the euthanasia of animals. It would appear that most of the jobs that make good or decent money requires the person to have some sort of specialized training.
p allen "Every single one of these so-called "jobs" need to be restructured to pay minimum wage! As you said Tyrone, "these people really irk me!"
Oh no, those people don't irk me at all. They make the money they make due to the skill set and training they bring to the market place. None of those jobs make well above minimum wage for a reason.
"They are well compensated for their efforts to obtain the certifications and licenses which makes them valuable to employers".
Can a burger flipper say the same? Can they?
Joe Conservative "Lunch at Micky D's already costs $10 bucks, up from $5 a few short years ago. So why would I want to spend $15? I'll just start to brown bag it, again."
These dopes seriously don't get it Joe. Beef prices are already at an all time high. The price of hamburgers in fast food places are reflecting this. I was in Micky D's today. A Big Mac, Fries and a drink is running over $6.00!! Fast food use to be about a CHEAP and CONVENIENT meal,not anymore. I rarely eat at fast food restaurants as it is, and this is an economic incentive for me not to. McDonald's sales and profits are already in a nose dive as it is. Like any product, when the price gets to a point where the consumer can do without it due to the high price versus the value to them, people will either find alternatives or they will do without that product.
anon said "Apply that to fast food, and you have Momentum Machines. Found at momentummachines.com. Given that the average fast food restaurant spends $250,000/year on hourly employees plus payroll taxes, workers compensation insurance, uniforms, etc, doubling the labor cost brings payroll expense to over $500.000."
Watching liberals protest is like watching children act out. They truly "think" that they are going to make $15 dollars an hour and have full benefits, healthcare etc etc et etc etc. Automation will come to the fast food industry and take off like a rocket! The fast food owners will have a few part time workers for some duties and automate the cooking and food prep. The customer could care less whether the food is prepared and cooked through automation or by human as long as the food is good. Hell when people buy hamburgers from fast food places, it looks like squashed crap on two buns anyways. If anything the automation might actually make the finished product look more appealing.
anon wrote "If Momentum Machines can deliver a machine that costs $750,000 (a very doable number given the number of machines you could sell), the return on investment is about 20 months (based on $60,000 MARCS depreciation tax savings + 80% of the $500,000 labor cost). Now, the fast food establishment needs far fewer employees and makes a bigger profit."
Any piece of automation equipment will pay for itself many times over. As more and more fast food restaurants turn to automation, the price of the equipment will fall thus making it more and more affordable for them to overhaul their store operations. When I go into a supermarket know half the lanes have touch screen checkouts while only two or three actually people are working as cashiers. The critical mistake the fast food workers who go out on strike are making is thinking that their jobs can't be replaced by a machine. Automation can take a bunch of raw materials and produce a finished product with ease, burgers and fries are no exception.
anon said "
I really hope the unions win. As an owner of a company that repairs automated equipment, I stand to reap the rewards. And, no, I won't be hiring the average McDonald's worker. I will be hiring the kids of their union bosses who will have education and skills my work requires."
If the unions did win, I would find several publicly traded automation companies and buy stock in them ASAP, because their companies are going to be very busy for years to come. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of the fast food corporations are already using automation in secret locations to fine tune the process for the inevitable roll out. The son of the union boss would definitely have more initiative in life then working at Micky D's as a career. So he we make for a good employee as long as his father doesn't try to unionize your business. lol In a way, I think the unions are admitting defeat in trying to union the 800 pound gorilla in Walmart, so the fast food restaurants are their plan B.
CB;"Of course allen. People who have a Class A Commercial Drivers License are in HIGH DEMAND".
And fast foot workers aren't?. In Texas there are 1194 McDonald's restaurants. According to their website, there are over 3700 jobs available in Texas alone. But that wasn't the gist of my statement. How much "skill" does it take to drive a semi-truck? What level of education do you think it requires? Answer to both questions is... VERY LITTLE!
CB;"Wrong, a garbage man needs a Class B Driver's License, because a trash truck in over 26,000 pounds".
How many questions are on a Class B Driver's test Tyrone? 30, 35? Whats the most difficult question on the test... a question that requires that you know the relation in euclidean geometry among the three sides of a right triangle? I don't think so. A sixteen year old can pass a DMV test. Regardless of the argument you wish to make, driving a truck is a "LOW SKILL" occupation. The very basic requirement is that you are healthy enough to drive long distances.
CB;"So every tom dick and harry can't just hope behind a bar and serve drinks, Only specially trained and licensed people can be bartenders".
Once "AGAIN" Tyrone, you prove that you'll say anything to prove "NOTHING!!!" Just to show you how silly you often sound, I did just a bit of on-line research just to see what the requirements were for bartenders in Maryland, your state. I found The Maryland Bartending Academy. Of course, if anyone would know (or at least want to convince you) that you needed to go to school for bartending, it would be a "Bartending School!"
So NO, in Maryland, and nowhere else in the US that I could tell, do you need to be formally trained or have a license to bartend. How many times have I told you to stop making stuff up?
Tyrone, the point is low skilled labor is what built this country. The key word here is "LABOR." Labor means "work." And hard work should pay a living wage. As far as what a McDonalds worker should be paid, hell, I really don't know. But what I do know is that low wages, and a high cost of living, has adverse economic effects on a society, as is apparent in 2014 America.
Tyrone, the point is low skilled labor is what built this country. The key word here is "LABOR." Labor means "work." And hard work should pay a living wage.
Yes, "skilled" labor. Glad you pointed that out. "Skilled" labor pays a higher wage than unskilled labor. You need to understand that.
Fast food workers are not "skilled" labor. Thus, this is not Marx's Communist Manifesto of "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability"--as much as you would like it to be.
CB;"More brains then think. A fireman must be certified as an EMT Emergency Medical Technician. He must also be certified as a Paramedic".
First off, you know darn well I was being facetious with obvious sarcasm laced statements. And yes, in the modern world Fireman have to be EMT's.
However, that wasn't the point of the sarcasm. That statement was based on the idea that people "volunteer" to be firefighters.
Look at it this way... Lets say you had a small fire in your house that was about to rage out of control, and you're doing you best to put it out. You've called the fire department yet they're 10 minutes away, and in ten minutes you could lose everything. So a "low skilled" person comes along and "volunteers" to help extinguish or control the fire. Would you tell him; "NO!, I'll handle it because you have no skills?"
On the other hand, you have a toothache and the dentist can't see you until morning. So, a "low skilled" person comes along and "volunteers" to work on your teeth. Would you tell him;"Sure, I just need a local anesthesia and one or two pulled!"
Huge difference, isn't it? But I digress...
This government spent trillions of dollars destroying, and then rebuilding Iraq and in part Afghanistan. They spent close to $200 billion on contractors alone. The fact is, we are not investing in our own people. Corporate greed has run amok, which is something both liberals and conservatives choose to ignore.
AGAIN, the point I'm attempting to get across is that low skilled workers and labor is the backbone of an economy. The food you need to survive is planted, cultivated, picked, processed, prepared and served by "low skilled" labor. With the present "RECORD BREAKING PROFITS", the least that the AMERICAN society can do is provide a wage that they can live comfortably on. (just Google the term "Record Breaking Profits" and go through the thousands of American corporations it lists...)
Mr. Allen, you miss the point of my post. Yes, Momentum Machines is hiring people who studied mechanical engineering. However, where did those people work while they were in school. Me, I worked at Pizza Hut in the late 70s. When I was able to show a good work record and that I had skills (welding and mechanical aptitude), I was able to get a job that paid more at a steel fabricator.
When I graduated from college in 82, jobs were scarce. I took the only job I could get managing parking garages and eventually their maintenance department. I left there to start my first business.
The point of all of this is first that minimum wage jobs should be an entry level into the future. If automation replaces those jobs, the future is bleaker for most kids.
Secondly, you need to think like a businessman for a minute. If you profit is based on controlling costs, you will go with the least expensive approach. This is why so many "big box" stores have automated checkout. Most grocery stores (including union shops like Acme), Home Depot, etc pay cashiers more than minimum wage. As a result, it is cost effective for them to automate. Again, the future is bleaker for those people who don't have the ability to learn new skills or desire to grow in their career.
You and I do agree completely on education!! Part of what has happened in the last 50 years or so is that businesses have stopped on the job training for people who weren't already qualified for a job. When in college, I worked for the ironworkers local. They furthered my training in steel work, skills I still use today.
You are absolutely correct about the failure to teach kids today useable skills, especially in the trades. See Mike Rowe's "Profoundly Disconnected" website. I can't hire people who do what my company does. I hire younger people who seem to have an ability to fix things and train them. I invest between $20 and 40,000 to train them to a useable level. I know of very few companies that will pay you while you learn a trade from ground up. My starting rate is $15/hr.
I would much rather hire trained people. Want to invest in a trade school? Not a Wyco Tech. A real trade school that trains welders, carpenters, machinery mechanics, plumbers, electricians, ironworkers, and millwrights. How about one in a poor neighborhood to give kids a chance?
What do you think? Caterpiller estimates that they need 25000 mechanics in the next 10 years to replace retirees. Want to help me set something up to train them?
p allen "And fast foot workers aren't?. In Texas there are 1194 McDonald's restaurants. According to their website, there are over 3700 jobs available in Texas alone. But that wasn't the gist of my statement. How much "skill" does it take to drive a semi-truck? What level of education do you think it requires? Answer to both questions is... VERY LITTLE!"
A truck driver has far more value then that of a fast food worker!! Anyone can be hired as a fast food worker, not everybody can be hired to drive a tractor trailer. Reread that allen, then reread it again. There is no compassion between the two. It's absurd that you would even try to compare the two. Driving a tractor trailer isn't like driving a typical automobile. A person must have the knowledge to operate and maneuver the combination vehicle. The trucking industry is one of the most regulated industries in America. A truck drive is responsible for hauling very valuable goods. They are the backbone of the U.S economy. Burger flippers are not.From building materials, cloths, food, automobiles, gas, chemicals etc all come through truck transport. Again, they are well compensated for what they do.
Sine you think truck driving is a profession that needs little training, then why don't fast food workers leave their low paying jobs and and just jump behind the wheel of a big rig, since both require little training, and this way the fast food worker will be making far more then they did working with the fries basket and saying can I take your order.
p allen "How many questions are on a Class B Driver's test Tyrone? 30, 35?"
It doesn't matter if the exam had 10 or 15! The National Association Motor Vehicle Administrators made the test. In order for a person to drive a Bus or Tractor Trailer, the person must be licensed in order to do, and employers look for applicants who have their CDL. That is what they are looking for and that brings value to them, that simple. There are driving and safety rules for bus and tractor trailer drivers that are far different then that of driving a car. So next you'll say that driving a gasoline tanker is as simple as cooking French Fries.lol sit down.
p allen "Whats the most difficult question on the test... a question that requires that you know the relation in euclidean geometry among the three sides of a right triangle?"
Yet another sad attempt at sarcasm. A friend of mine is going for his CDL, and he has told me all about it. The knowledge test has to do with answering questions to get your permit. Again, you have to pass the knowledge test just to get your learners permit not the actual license. You have to pass the psychical test of vehicle pre inspection, vehicle control operations and last the actual road test. If you fail any one of those tests, you fail overall. This is why it's important to know of what yo speak allen. Oh in order for a person to get their Hazmat endorsements, they must know about chemicals and what chemicals interact with certain ones etc etc.
P allen "I don't think so. A sixteen year old can pass a DMV test."
How many 16 year olds do you see with a Commercial Driver's License genius? Come On!!! An automobile is not a tractor trailer, transit bus or gasoline tanker. It is possible for a 16 year old to pass the knowledge test, but that's about it.
p allen "Regardless of the argument you wish to make, driving a truck is a "LOW SKILL" occupation. The very basic requirement is that you are healthy enough to drive long distances."
Why why do truck drivers make so much more then that of a burger flipper? No matter what you say, the free market sets the price for the labor of the trucker driver and the burger flipper period for a reason.
p allen "Tyrone, the point is low skilled labor is what built this country. The key word here is "LABOR." Labor means "work." And hard work should pay a living wage. As far as what a McDonalds worker should be paid, hell, I really don't know. But what I do know is that low wages, and a high cost of living, has adverse economic effects on a society, as is apparent in 2014"
Bull!! How hard is it to put a frozen patty on a grill? A freaking monkey can do that.Being a truck driver is a position that can't be automated like a burger flipper can. If a position can be automated, that means it really has low value to begin with. A long time ago, I use to work for a major manufacturing company doing inventory auditing. There was a production line that had 10 people packing the finished goods into little boxes and there was a main packer who packed those little boxes into a big box and sent it through a taper to be stacked on a pallet. I got transfered to a different department for about 1 1/2 which was in a different building. When I came back I looked over at the line and noticed something way different. The line was completely transformed, reconfigured and automated. It now only needed four people on that line. One to make sure the products on the belt were free of defect, the other to bring the raw materials out, the other to pack the boxes into the big box,j and the other to make sure the process was running smoothly. Automation took the jobs of 6 people with ease. They had to have spent several million dollars re doing the line and making it automated. The free market doesn't care if you "work hard". Obviously those workers didn't bring value to their employer. Now if they were the chemists, engineers or in product R&D, they would still have had a job, because their value to the company would have made them indispensable.
p allen "Once "AGAIN" Tyrone, you prove that you'll say anything to prove "NOTHING!!!" Just to show you how silly you often sound, I did just a bit of on-line research just to see what the requirements were for bartenders in Maryland, your state. I found The Maryland Bartending Academy. Of course, if anyone would know (or at least want to convince you) that you needed to go to school for bartending, it would be a "Bartending School!"
Still trying and still failing, miserably. Here is a job listing for a full time bartender here in Maryland at the Casino in Arundel Mills.
Completion of professional bartending training desired. Mixology training a plus
EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS:
A high school diploma or GED equivalent is preferred.
Completion of professional bartending training desired. Mixology training a plus.
Six months to one year experience as a bartender in a high volume operation.
Must be able to obtain and maintain a valid gaming "license" as determined by the Maryland State Lottery and Gaming Agency for the position and Alcohol Beverage Control card.
You have my permission to do a Homer Simpson Doh!!
p allen "Tyrone, the point is low skilled labor is what built this country."
You must be out of your mind to really think that. Entrepreneurs build this country. Innovators built this country. Risk takers built this country. Capitalists built this country. The next great innovation will not come from a low skilled worker just as it has never come from a low skilled worker. It wasn't a low skilled worker who created the operating system for my cellpone allen. How many low skilled workers are writing code for the next great app? Are low skilled workers building the airplanes at Boeing right now? Are low skilled workers building the next advanced weapon systems for our military? Are low skilled workers producing, writing and directing the next box office movie or television show allen?
Again, don't make me laugh!!lol Low skilled workers are paid what they are paid, because they are are low skilled. If they were high skilled they would be paid a lot of money for their skill. It's not that hard to figure out. The only low skill job I know of that pays a lot of money is being a rapper.
If low skilled labor is what built this country why do parents tell their kids to get a good education then? Are you low skilled allen? If you aren't low skilled, then according to your own words, you aren't the backbone of this country right? Being a teacher is not low skilled. You are an advocate for low skilled yet you personally decided you were going to be high skilled, did I miss something?
-BP "Not to long Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed a bill that mandates that all fast food employees must get paid $15/hour, which takes effect next April. Oh, and it gets better: now Mom and Pop businesses across the city have to pay their employees the same amount that fast food workers are getting paid."
It's going to be interesting to see how that $15 an hour law is going to work out in Seattle.
This may be an obvious sign of things to come to Seattle
I predict businesses are either going to relocate or they are going to try and seek out some backdoor exemption for their business. What I really would like to see is how that law will impact inflation in Seattle. Prices are going to go up around the base price for unskilled labor. The prices to buy food, rent an apartment etc is going to go up. That $15 dollars an hour will ultimately be as if it was $8 or so dollars an hour when adjusted for inflation. The minimum wage has never been a living wage, and this will be no exception in Seattle.
-BP "One popular Seattle business, Dick Drive-In near the University of Washington, which for several years the establishment has offered best-in-industry employee benefits such as a matched 401(k), 100% employer-paid medical insurance, and a $22,000 college tuition scholarship after six months of work. It makes me wonder if Mayor Ed's bill is going to have a dramatic impact on Dick's?"
Dicks was being generous in their compensation beyond what they needed to do prior to the new law. If I was head of the management, I would simply pay what the new law calls for and nothing more. I wouldn't be able to afford it. Think of it like this BP. If you went to a restaurant, and that restaurant already had a built in 15% tip on the check, then why would you be inclined to tip any more if it has already been included. The same with Dick's Drive In. Why would Dicks be inclined to pay even more then it generously paid it's employees prior to the new $15 an hour law? It's a business with profit margins. The wage increase is already going to cut into their bottom line, but for them to pay even more then what the new laws demands, they are going to have to either raise their prices or cut staff to control costs.
anon "Tyrone, the point is low skilled labor is what built this country. The key word here is "LABOR." Labor means "work." And hard work should pay a living wage."
What employee in his or her right mind would say that they don't work hard so they don't deserve more money?lol Skill is what determines what a person's labor is worth in the job market. If in la la land where low or no skilled workers can get paid what skilled labor makes just because they work hard, then why should anyone go to college to get a degree or get a marketable skill in a trade? Just work hard and the world will lead a path to your door. It's a funny argument. Saying that hard work should demand a living wage is like saying that everybody should get a trophy just for competing in a race. The economic parity thing is absurd. If people want to earn a living wage, then they should
go out and get the skills necessary so that they can make a living wage.
As for the fast food industry. I know for a fact that the assistant managers and general managers at McDonalds and other fast food places don't work for minimum wages nor get paid minimum wage, why is that you suppose? The difference between a capitalist minded worker and a socialist minded worker is this. A socialist minded worker believes everybody works hard thus are entitled to make a living wage and be on par with that of others who are making a living wage based on their education. Some believe that a doctor should make no more then a person who works on a car assembly line. The capitalist minded workers knows as a rule of thumb that it's better to work "smarter rather then harder" in order to get ahead. Just because a person "works hard" at scraping gum off the sidewalk doesn't mean that he is entitled to make $30,000 a year doing it. Now if that person decided to start a food cart business and puts time and energy into finding business and he makes $ 40 to 50 thousand a year doing it, more power to him I say and good for him. That's the difference between providing a need in the market place and being compensated for it rather then demanding it and not providing no value in exchange.
Tyrone, this is what you wrote: "Only specially trained and licensed people can be bartenders".
This is the CASINO qualifications; Completion of professional bartending training desired. Mixology training a plus. Not only that, they say training is "DESIRED" and a "PLUS" not "REQUIRED!" Moreover, from what I know about Casino's in Michigan, every employee in a casino who "TOUCHES CASINO MONEY" must have a gaming license.
Again, there are no licencing requirements to bartend. There are states that refer to alcoholic beverage service requirements as "Bartender License", but there is no legal requirement license for a bartender.
So yet "AGAIN", even while attempting to change directions, you're saying NOTHING!
CB;"A truck driver has far more value then that of a fast food worker!!".
As usual Tyrone you completely distort my response. You said that "truck drivers are in high demand." I was simply letting you know that there's just as much demand for fast food workers! That has nothing to do with "the value of the worker." Its simple "demand for workers", which is what you initially proffered.
CB;"You must be out of your mind to really think that. Entrepreneurs build this country. Innovators built this country. Risk takers built this country. Capitalists built this country".
Tyrone, you don't have to "go along to get along." Your group thinking is astounding. But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll contend that perhaps I haven't been clear enough for you to understand. With only so many characters allowed in this comment text box, it makes it a bit difficult to fully explain a very simple concept. But I'll give it a try.
Labor, is the primary function of production. Can we agree on that? If not, then you might as well stop reading now. If you do agree, you can continue reading.
You say that entrepreneurs, innovators, risk takers and capitalist built this country. Okay, can you name me "ONE", just one entrepreneur, innovator, risk taker or capitalist that built and/or became profitable and successful without "LABOR." Not just without personal labor, but without skilled or unskilled labor of any kind. That being said... Allow me to give you a few examples of how "unskilled" labor built this country.
Inventions are just that, "inventions." Edison "invented" the light bulb. However, the "innovation" was, the distribution and electrical transmission lines, transformers and generators that combined with the light bulb that made it an "innovation." Can we agree on that? Okay then, can we agree that the wood for the poles, the metals for the wires, the polymers for insulation and the overall construction of a power grid required "LABOR."
The steam locomotive was an invention. The transcontinental railroad was an innovation. The television was an invention. yet broadcasting was the innovation. And so on, and so on...
There is no way to predict the success of any innovation before its introduction and production. Thus, any innovation requires LABOR as a means for PRODUCTION for the entrepreneur to become a profitable and successful capitalist.
To bolster a the point in question, there is no better example of "unskilled labor" building a nation than Qatar.
"Just a few decades ago the tiny Gulf state was the region's most sleepy outpost, known for pearl trading, and not much else.
Now it boasts a modern capital city, enormous industry thanks to its vast gas reserves, and is gearing up to host the World Cup in 2022.
This phenomenal development has only been possible because of one key resource: migrant workers.
Qatar is a country that has been built by foreigners - a veritable army of workers have been brought in to build its bridges, run its companies and clean its streets.".
Most of these workers are "unskilled."
Capitalism in 2014. Forcing business to pay higher and higher minimum wage as set by government, reeks of "creeping socialism." In college we were told that socialism is like a stepping stone to communism. That economic system is fantasized as "ideal" by Marxist utopians. "From each according to his ability; To each according to his need" is the motto. When they say "Popular" ownership of the means of production and distribution, what that really always means is GOVERNMENT ownership (not the people). Socialists / Marxists never seem to learn or are in denial of the history of Lenin, Stalin, Mao Zedong , Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Kim Jong Il & Kim Jong Un, and Hitler (national socialist political party 1933-1945). It always ended up being oppressive and massively deadly. (Today's communist countries include China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea, and in actuality, some African countries.)
If that seems far fetched from us, keep in mind that if the legal framework is already set up, if there is a overthrow or takeover of the national government, then the iron fist of Big Brother is only a generation away (as the brainwashed savage jihadists realize).
Capitalism is still the best economic system, but it seems the free market needs some controls to prevent corruption and disorder (notice on bulletin boards the "Equal Opportunity" and other posters). Letting the free market, supply and demand, and talent and drive, determine costs and wages, has worked well in the past. Today, high technology, automation, 24-hour or 7-day businesses, big box stores, including Super Walmarts as big as a footbal field, has changed the employment picture.
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