Is Obama's nomination "historic" or just long overdue due to lack of blacks trying?
8-31-2008
The "America sucks" convention is over aka the Democrat National Convention. I was way to busy to really pay any attention to it, lucky me. The theme of the convention was similar to 2004. George W Bush was the target of Democrats, but this time they were trying to link John McCain to George Bush. I guess it could have been called the "McBush" hate fest. I would think eight years later their Bush derangement Syndrome would start to fade, I guess not. Hell if McCain wins, they will still be crying the name of Bush against him in 2012. Barack Obama was placed between a rock and a hard place in regards to his teleprompter 5000 delivered speech Thursday night. The speech was given on the same date that Dr. King gave his famous I have a dream speech. For some reason people in the media and people in the black community were trying to link the two events. In reality, the two events were not similar or historically linked at all. It seems that I am the only person to point this out so far. During the civil rights era, the movement was to eliminate black codes and the laws of Jim Crow aka "separate but equal". In other words, Dr. King and others fought for the complete integration of American society. There was no provision to my knowledge that prevented a black person or any other person from an ethnic group from running for President of the United States. If anything, the action would have been pretty dangerous at that time to do, but there was nothing preventing a black person person from doing so. The reason I never was caught up in the hype of Obama running for President as a black man was simply, because I knew that the opportunity have always been there, he was just the first black person more legitimate then the half of a handful of blacks that tried before him. This is what I mean. Before Obama ran for President, only four other blacks ever tried to run for nomination. Three of those four were Carol Mosley Braun, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton. Now lets face reality. These black so called candidates never had a snowball's chance in hell of ever winning the nomination of the Democrat Party. It wasn't because they were black, it was because they were "goof balls" and were seen as radicals that didn't represent mainstream America. To borrow the words of Obama's Vice President candidate Joe Biden, Obama was simply the first black candidate that was "mainstream, clean and articulate". In actuality Biden was right. With those qualities, it made it easy for him to be seen as a legitimate candidate thus he was taken seriously and got the nomination. The opportunity has always been there. Obama was simply the first pseudo mainstream black candidate to actually seize it. You can say "the rest is history".
The "America sucks" convention is over aka the Democrat National Convention. I was way to busy to really pay any attention to it, lucky me. The theme of the convention was similar to 2004. George W Bush was the target of Democrats, but this time they were trying to link John McCain to George Bush. I guess it could have been called the "McBush" hate fest. I would think eight years later their Bush derangement Syndrome would start to fade, I guess not. Hell if McCain wins, they will still be crying the name of Bush against him in 2012. Barack Obama was placed between a rock and a hard place in regards to his teleprompter 5000 delivered speech Thursday night. The speech was given on the same date that Dr. King gave his famous I have a dream speech. For some reason people in the media and people in the black community were trying to link the two events. In reality, the two events were not similar or historically linked at all. It seems that I am the only person to point this out so far. During the civil rights era, the movement was to eliminate black codes and the laws of Jim Crow aka "separate but equal". In other words, Dr. King and others fought for the complete integration of American society. There was no provision to my knowledge that prevented a black person or any other person from an ethnic group from running for President of the United States. If anything, the action would have been pretty dangerous at that time to do, but there was nothing preventing a black person person from doing so. The reason I never was caught up in the hype of Obama running for President as a black man was simply, because I knew that the opportunity have always been there, he was just the first black person more legitimate then the half of a handful of blacks that tried before him. This is what I mean. Before Obama ran for President, only four other blacks ever tried to run for nomination. Three of those four were Carol Mosley Braun, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton. Now lets face reality. These black so called candidates never had a snowball's chance in hell of ever winning the nomination of the Democrat Party. It wasn't because they were black, it was because they were "goof balls" and were seen as radicals that didn't represent mainstream America. To borrow the words of Obama's Vice President candidate Joe Biden, Obama was simply the first black candidate that was "mainstream, clean and articulate". In actuality Biden was right. With those qualities, it made it easy for him to be seen as a legitimate candidate thus he was taken seriously and got the nomination. The opportunity has always been there. Obama was simply the first pseudo mainstream black candidate to actually seize it. You can say "the rest is history".
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 10:23 AM
14 Comments:
CB says;"Three of those four were Carol Mosley Braun, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton. Now lets face reality. These black so called candidates never had a snowball's chance in hell of ever winning the nomination of the Democrat Party. It wasn't because they were black, it was because they were "goof balls"
You left Alan Keyes off your list Tyrone..(always "hacking", huh Tyrone? LOL) The fact is, up until Obama all blacks who ran for the office, including Keyes, Shirley Chisholm and Dick Gregory, were considered "goof balls" with a snowballs chance of winning.
And to say that it wasn't because they were Black (especially in Chisholms era) is being naive. Blacks who are non repentant to the political right-wing conservative forces will always be viewed as "angry" in their eyes and opinion. Thus, if you're a Democrat and Black, you're viewed as Black (and angry) first, Democrat second. Ben Stein says it best.
The actual truth Tyrone, the same applies for you! But with a different twist. Black conservatives and Republicans have their "groups", agenda and concerns that must conform to, and be approved by the Republican party hierarchy. Thus you're viewed as "safe", an "independent thinker" and a moralist. Thus, being Black in the political arena is always.... "a reason".
Your commentary lacks all historical context.
Dude, you wrote some ign'ant stuff.
P Allen"You left Alan Keyes off your list Tyrone..(always "hacking", huh Tyrone? LOL) The fact is, up until Obama all blacks who ran for the office, including Keyes, Shirley Chisholm and Dick Gregory, were considered "goof balls" with a snowballs chance of winning."
I did forget to mention Allen Keyes, thanks for correcting me allen lol. It was an honest mistake. lol Actually I remember saying several times before that Allen Keyes is a brilliant conservative thinker, but it was his personality that didn't resonate with many republicans. So I wasn't trying to shield Keyes from criticism allen. So he can be added to the list with the rest of them.
P Allen"
And to say that it wasn't because they were Black (especially in Chisholms era) is being naive. Blacks who are non repentant to the political right-wing conservative forces will always be viewed as "angry" in their eyes and opinion. Thus, if you're a Democrat and Black, you're viewed as Black (and angry) first, Democrat second. Ben Stein says it best."
Listen to the tone of people like Jerimiah Wright, Otis Mose, Joseph Lowrey, Jesse Jackson, Al Shartpon and many many many other, it isn't a perception of anger, it is angera allen. I still can't figure out what the anger is suppose to be about. Do you want to know why "right wingers" see blacks that don'subscribe to conservatism as being angry allen? Conservatives by nature love America and have a deep respect for it. They live their lives not constantly seeing themselves as "victims" or feeling "oppressed". They tend to embrace the fact that the only person that can hold them back as individuals is themselves. Oddly Allen, I rarely if not ever come across a black conservative coming off bitter or angry. I wonder whyy? I linked the video of Michelle Obama at the University of South Carolina talking about how Americans are "comfortable in their ignronace". I also remember when she said that America is "a down right mean country". Once again Allen, its not a perception of anger it is anger. I had some family over my house the other day for a cookout. As I was standing over the grill cooking I realized how blessed I truly am. There are people right now in third world countries that will never get to experience what I take for granted every summer allen. There are people in other countrys that will die because of starvatiion, I thought about that as I was putting TBONE steaks on my grill. People who know they are fortunate and blessed beyong belief never have a reason to be "angry" allen.
P Allen "The actual truth Tyrone, the same applies for you! But with a different twist. Black conservatives and Republicans have their "groups", agenda and concerns that must conform to, and be approved by the Republican party hierarchy. Thus you're viewed as "safe", an "independent thinker" and a moralist. Thus, being Black in the political arena is always.... "a reason"."
Sorry allen, but I don't have a "group or click" conservatives.lol I must disagree with you on me being "safe". I have gone after several republicans in my day as well as democrats allen. I've gone afer Bush, McCain, Lindsey Graham, Trent Lott, Arlene Spector, Olympia Snow, Christie Todd Whitman, Michael Medved and many others. Conservatism to me is using common sense to solve a problem. Seriously, do you really think that every republican or conservative agrees with or even like George W Bush or even John McCain for that matter allen?
Darkstar"Your commentary lacks all historical context.Dude, you wrote some ign'ant stuff"
Darkstar, I expect better of you. You normally challenge me on something I wrote you deem to be unfactual, then you present your best arguement forward to counter it. When you talk about historical context, prove me wrong in what I said. Was there anything "historically" known that prevented blacks from running from president? Its a straight forward direct question darkstar. I would be foolish if I said that Obama wasn't the first black person to win a major party's nomination. Thats not my point. If I ran for Governor of Maryland and was elected, I would be the first black governor of Maryland. It is historic in that aspect, but I merely decided to run for the office. Were their forces holding me back from running? No. I guess what I am saying is this. I base my accomplishments on my ability as an individual. I don't view it as "overcoming" "oppression" or "the system" because I am black. What Obama accomplished merely showed what anyone black or white can accomplish if they just actually try.
Historical context:
Shirley Chisolm -- first Black person to run for president. She was VERY mainstream at the time and even said her duty was to her constituents first, not Black people.
Jesse Jackson, Sr -- he actually received more white votes than anyone expected. From the race, the Rainbow Coalition was born. He got enough votes that the Dem party had to take him seriously.
Douglass Wilder -- ran for the Dem nomination after being the Virginia governor. He quickly dropped out because he had ZERO support although he was very mainstream.
If I ran for Governor of Maryland and was elected, I would be the first black governor of Maryland. It is historic in that aspect, but I merely decided to run for the office. Were their forces holding me back from running?
People ran. No one held them back. They didn't get the votes so they didn't get this far.
I stated my case on the other subjects, and I'll stick by them. So, no use in addressing the same issues. Yet this statement tended to really "stick-out" among the rest of your comments;
CB;"There are people in other countries that will die because of starvation, I thought about that as I was putting TBONE steaks on my grill."
It's indeed true that you, and I are fortunate that we can grill steaks while other people are starving in place's that would make our nightmares seem pleasant. Yet, it is the liberal in me that allows me to truly understand why I am able to enjoy such comforts.
I realize it's "corporate greed" that permits me to have bacon and chops slaughtered by illegal immigrants for slave wages, for my breakfast table in the morning.
That's "T-Bone" steak on your grill...? Chances are the dollars you spent are going south to the Brazilian meat firm JBS-Friboi. Dallas based HM Capital Partnership (aka "Swift Beef Group")was in constant trouble with the feds over hiring illegals, and decided to turn their debts, and the company, over to the Brazilians. Will the low wage jobs follow? We'll just have to wait and see...
JBS is now the largest meat distributor in the world.
Digressing to your comment on starving people, I believe Thomas Malthus ("On the Principle of Population") was wrong. There is far more than enough food produced in the world today to feed every human being alive. Hell, Americans throw away enough food on a daily basis that could possibly provide every man, woman and child in Dar fur three-square-meals daily.
With all due respect, your statement is typical of the callous "neoconservative" attitude. A callousness and casual disregard for human life other than your own and those in your circle. The fact is, it is not over population that causes starvation. The major cause of starvation is POLITICS! The same callousness which you've shown by your statement, and the politics which you support.
I must add also that you're wrong in your beliefs that Blacks, like Michelle Obama are "angry" because of their beliefs. Many Blacks, like myself, are "frustrated" by the POLITICS of the rich and super-rich. Politics that leads to war, destruction and famine. Politics that effects the average American with inflation, job-loss, corporate corruption, energy price shocks and future generations uncertainty.
However, I can't think of one person (other than a openly professed Communist) who advocates wealth redistribution in America. No one wants that, I know I don't!Yet, it's the "FEAR TACTIC POLITICS" of the neo-consevative that stifles real wealth productivity by the masses. The truth is everyone in America could be independently wealthy...yet, the "fact" is, rich people need millions of poor to keep them rich. Thus, POLITICS and political power must stay in the hands of the rich...
Darkstar"Shirley Chisolm -- first Black person to run for president. She was VERY mainstream at the time and even said her duty was to her constituents first, not Black people."
Ok, I was off by two other people. Thanks for clarifying Darkstar. As for Shirlye Chisolm, you said she was VERY mainstream at the time. You didn't mention that she was one of the founding members of the Congressional black caucus in 1969 and then ran for the Democrat Nomination just three years later. I doubt very much that even if Barack Obama was a member of the CBC in 2008, he would be viewed as "mainstream". So I wouldn't call Ms. Chisolm mainstream back in 1972. She also caused several waves in the Democrat Party during her initial arrival in congress especially in regards to asking for a reassignment from the House Agricultural Committee.
Darkstar"Jesse Jackson, Sr -- he actually received more white votes than anyone expected. From the race, the Rainbow Coalition was born. He got enough votes that the Dem party had to take him seriously."
That isn't really saying much Darkstar. There are some people that are white that actually support Louis Farahkan. Jackson may have received more white votes then expected but over all his support among mainstream Americans was non existent Darkstar.
As for Wilder, he in my opinion was truly the first mainstream black candidate to run. I consider him more of a mainstream candidate back in 1991 then Obama now in 2008. I vaguely remember his run. It is always said that people rarely remember those who lose only those who actually win. In everybody I mentioned and those you included, they all have one thing in common Darkstar. Nothing prevented or obstructed them as blacks from running for President. That was my ultimate point. My historical context may have been off by two, but the underlying premise still remain true.
Darkstar"People ran. No one held them back. They didn't get the votes so they didn't get this far.
Exactly my point. Obama is historic in the sense that he is seen as mainstream enough to get the votes that others before him weren't able to get for whatever reason. I guess what bugs me the most is that people are trying to equate Barack Obama to Martin Luther King. Dr. King said to judge others by the "content of their character not the color of their skin". So in regards to Obama, he is being judged on his skin due to the "historic" aspect many times over then his character as a candidate and a person. If people truly claim to understand Dr. King's speech, they should realize they are doing the opposite of what the speech entailed.
p allen"
I realize it's "corporate greed" that permits me to have bacon and chops slaughtered by illegal immigrants for slave wages, for my breakfast table in the morning."
corporate greed allen? If you haven't already, I highly recommend you watch the movie Wallstreet. You can learn a lot from that movie. Oliver Stone tried to put a negative spin on capitalism with that movie but in essence he showed how it truly works. The lifestyle that our country and many other westernized countries enjoy is due to capitalism or if you want to call it "greed". Those same greedy corporations make it possible for me to have internet access, have a computer in which to say what I want to say and have a place to say it. Google owns blogger, google is a corporation yes? You mentioned something about illegal aliens working for slave wages. First off, illegals shouldnt' be in the United States to begin with. Second, when they come here illegally, they set themselves up to be exploited to work for slave wages in an underground economy allen. Why is it that you never hear about immigrants that come to America legally and asumilate into the society ever being exploited allen? That is your homework question. It's funny that capitalism is somehow blamed for the world's ills when if anything it is actually the cure. It is "greed" that motivates people to create and innovate. Socialist and Communist countries don't do that. Liberals try to accuse America of trying to shape other countries in our image. That is far from the truth, however this is a simple fact. Capitalism=Self Empowerment=Prosperity. Even the working poor in our country enjoy a lifestyle far above people in many countries in Africa, South America and Eastern Europe.
CB says;"I guess what bugs me the most is that people are trying to equate Barack Obama to Martin Luther King. Dr. King said to judge others by the "content of their character not the color of their skin".
Why does that "bug" you? It really shouldn't, because if it were not for Dr. King (and the Civil Rights Movement as a whole), Obama would not be where he is now. Basically, and ideologically, Obama and Dr. King are cut from the same mold
Furthermore, Dr. King's statement does have "context" which you fail to imply. The entire excerpt goes;
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Those "little children" he was referring to are BLACK... Mind you, I am not implying that Dr. King did not want "all" people treated equally, yet the fact is in that statement he was very specific when he said; "his four little children". He was specifically, unequivocally and unquestionably referring to "BLACK PEOPLE" being treated equally...
The fact is that conservatives invoke the name (and that "one" sound bite) of Dr. King's in an effort to become benefactors of his "WORDS"...NOT HIS IDEALOGY! In essence, it's another political ploy!
Moreover, I've stated time and time again that it is a "FACT", that if Dr. King were alive today he would still be an advocate for Civil Rights in the same manner as the 1960's.
When Dr. King died he was 39 years old. A point in life when most, if not every one, becomes set in their ways. If he had lived to see the age 78 or beyond, those who criticize the likes of "Jerimiah Wright, Otis Mose, Joseph Lowrey, Jesse Jackson and Al Shartpon" would castigate Dr. King right along with them.
Just days before Dr. King was assassinated this was to be his largest and most revolutionary plan to date. This is what MLK was all about!
I defy any conservative to petition for, or the incantation of, a "Poor People's Campaign" in any form or forum! If conservatives want to "hi-jack" the memory of Dr. King, they should start with the fundamental essence of Dr. King' character, and not just simply twist a sound bite to advance their agenda.
P Allen "Why does that "bug" you? It really shouldn't, because if it were not for Dr. King (and the Civil Rights Movement as a whole), Obama would not be where he is now. Basically, and ideologically, Obama and Dr. King are cut from the same mold"
Oh really allen? I do you come to your conclusion on that. How is it that the civil rights movement made it possible for Obama to be where he is at right now? Also, how is Obama and Dr. King cut from the same mold?
P Allen "If conservatives want to "hi-jack" the memory of Dr. King, they should start with the fundamental essence of Dr. King' character, and not just simply twist a sound bite to advance their agenda."
Conservatives hijacking the memory?!! That's rich allen. If anyone who has been promoting equality in America for the last few decades have been conservatives allen. Obama candidates are liberal, and they are the ones crying racism just because their candidate is being politically attacked. Politicians get attacked all the time. Obama's own liberal supporters don't want him treated like any other candidate allen. Where is the "equality" in that? Conservatives have been pushing for a equality among people while liberal Obama attended a church that focuses on one race of people when in actuality we are ALL god's children. So spare me on that one allen. Conservatives are the ones telling blacks that they can achieve anything in America just like anyone else, thats promoting equality. Liberals have been saying that because of the color of one's skin, they will always be the eternal victim until they die and needs their help. That is promoting racial victim hood as well as inequality. So do you want to restate that comment allen?
CB asks;"How is it that the civil rights movement made it possible for Obama to be where he is at right now?"
Come on Tyrone...I shouldn't have to explain to you "how and why" the Civil Rights Movement to place.
Every Black person in this country, including Barak Obama, owes a debt of gratitude to Dr. King and his efforts. If you can see a reason for it, or disagree with the assertion, I can't answer the question for you...
CB;"Also, how is Obama and Dr. King cut from the same mold?"
Obama, (as Dr. King did) began his efforts organizing people at a grass-roots and community level. What you probably didn't know is that his first job in Chicago was director of the "Developing Communities Project", a Catholic Church based organization.
Just as Dr. King was an advocate for the poor, in his earliest efforts, Obama went into one of, if not the poorest community in Chicago (the Atgeld Gardens Housing Projects) and began a "tenants rights" organization. It was Obama who drove the community efforts to have asbestos removed from the buildings.
As Dr. King was a staunch advocate for Blacks to have the right to vote, Obama pushed to have that dream continued by registering 150,000 unregistered Blacks in Illinois, a feat that was acknowledged by Crain's Chicago Business.
Yet, there are many other Blacks who are "cut from the same mold" a Dr. King. All one has to do is show in your "efforts" that you care about, and want to help people.
I usually see racists as fools.
I only see them as dangerous when they wield the power to make my life miserable or the power to take my life at their discretion!
The coward who spews racist insults online is nothing to be feared. Only if he has friends in high places should anyone be concerned.
As long as they don't have that kind of power they aren't much of a threat.
It makes me laugh how blackfolks fear the US Government is out to get them. When every US citizen has the power to remove corrupt politicians and government officials!
Too bad we can't remove corrupt Media moguls and TV executives. These people have the power to shape our culture and they are a greater threat to social equality than the government!
But I guess Adolescent fears trump common knowledge.
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