Is a sexist double standard rearing it's ugly head?
Every since it came to light that Sarah Palin's 17 year old daughter Bristol was pregnant, Obama supporters and their allies in the media have done everything humanly possible to try and make a private family situation the next Watergate scandal. Maybe I'm missing something or I'm out of touch, but I can't see or find the connection between what Bristol Palin does with her boyfriend and Sarah Palin running for Vice President. So I dwelled on this question for almost a full day. Then it dawned on me. This is being blown up to be a big deal, because Sarah Pilan is a "WOMAN". When McCain introduced Pilan on Friday, the very first wave of attacks against Pilan were centered on her being a mother of five and that she should be home raising her family. Those remarks in itself were extremely sexist and and chauvinist. Then on Saturday the attacks focused on Sarah Palin not deciding to abort her son Trig that was going to be born with Down Syndrome. It's comical that liberals shout until their lungs hurt about "the right to choose". Well Sarah made a choice, and her choice was a personal choice and and family choice. She choose to have the child, yet the "compassionate" ideologues on the left verbally demeaned her for doing so. Now the third wave of attacks are focused on her daughter Bristol being pregnant at 17. When all of these "criticisms" are tied together and taken at face value, they have nothing to do with Sarah Palin as a person or her ability to serve in the role of Vice President. What if Sarah Palin wasn't a female conservative Republican that was pro life, but a "male" liberal Democrat that was "pro abortion"? If she was a man, would the media and liberals be attacking him over "HIS" 17 year old daughter" being pregnant out of wedlock? The answer is no. How many children are born out of wedlock to liberals in Hollywood each year? Many of them were in Denver just last week for the Democrat National Convention. Living in Baltimore, all I hear on a daily basis is young men and women talking about "their baby's daddy" or "their baby's mother". When you turn on the Maury Povich show, every other show is a "paternity test" show to find out who's the daddy or mother. Clearly values have changed in regards to sex and out of wedlock pregnancies and births. The same hypocrites that would say "it's no big deal" if their daughter was pregnant at 17 are the very ones attacking Sarah Palin for the choice her daughter made to keep her child. I forgot to mention one thing. The young man that got Bristol pregnant is also going to marry her. People are slow to mention that fact for unknown reasons. Just when you thought the chauvinists politics and attacks ended with Hillary Clinton, the new chapter sadly has begun with Sarah Palin. If liberals and the media think by attacking Sarah and her daughter this is somehow going to damage Sarah among the conservative base, they might want to think again.
posted by Alpha Conservative Male at 4:48 AM
86 Comments:
I live in the so-called buckle of the bible belt. Probably 1/3 of my old classmates from ORU had at least one of their children either have a child oow or fathered one. One of my co-workers has two (soon to be three grandchildren). All of them are oow. Another one of my good friends was trying to get custody of her two granddaughters (both born oow - her son is the father).
I believe the hypocritical attacks against her (and Elizabeth Edwards for not speaking publicly about John's trists for that matter) will probably help energize the conservative family values base.
We have gotten so mean in this country. Talk about kicking people when they are down.
The smears and attacks are more understandable when you look at the numbers. The Zogby tracker at the end of last week, when the Dems SHOULD HAVE gotten a 5% to 10% Convention bounce actually had the Obama camp down - 47% McCain to 45% Obama and Zogby’s polls still show 22% of Clinton voters claiming they’ll vote for McCain!
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html
For Liberals THOSE have got to be some scary numbers.
Here’s an amusing article about Obama is on CNN explaining why he has more experience than Sarah Palin (NOT where his camp would want him to be);
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/obama-defends-natural-disaster-experience/
pamela"believe the hypocritical attacks against her (and Elizabeth Edwards for not speaking publicly about John's trists for that matter) will probably help energize the conservative family values base."
I think it will to pamela. Sean Hannity said it best. 2008 is the year that journalism officially died. It astonishing that these lemmings actually think they have a leg to stand on in regards to Obama's experience. I guess the koolaid their drinking must be laced with ecstasy or some very power mind altering drug. Pamela, do you think the media and the Obama sheep would bash Biden if they found out that one of his son's girlfriend was pregnant? First Geraldine Ferraro was attacked along with Hillary Clintion then Elizabeth Edwards and now Sarah Palin. I see a pattern forming here. It looks like the power structure of the Democrat Party wants to keep women inline. I could be wrong, but I think that is exactly what it is pamela.
jmk"Zogby’s polls still show 22% of Clinton voters claiming they’ll vote for McCain!"
You know jmk, I didn't factor the hillary voters into it. I was under the impression that the Obama kooks and the media flunkys of Obama was attacking Palin just because she was a conservative that has helped reunite the base. After Hillary gave her speech telling her voters to vote for Obama, I just assumed they were since it was Hillary directly asking her voters to do so. It does make sense that Obama goons would try and poison Sarah Palin in the eyes of disenfranchised Hillary voters that still won't back Obama. I can't see from their warped logic how Obama goons and the media think that by attacking Palin that is going to look good in the eyes of female hillary supporters jmk.
jmk "Here’s an amusing article about Obama is on CNN explaining why he has more experience than Sarah Palin (NOT where his camp would want him to be);"
Oh please!lol Obama came to Maryland two years ago during the midterm elections when Michael Steele was running against Ben Cardin for the U.S Senate. Obama while at Bowie State University said and I quote
" Michael Steele seems like a nice of enough guy, but HIS RESUME IS KIND OF THIN".
If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is jmk. Either Obama is one of the biggest hypocrites in political history or the poor fool is suffering from a massive case of narcissism and denial. They want to ignore so desperately Obama is the number one on the ticket, and Palin is the number two on McCain's.
When you put it like that it makes total sense. I'm sure that Tammy Bruce would agree with you. They just don't want a woman the head of the nation. I did not think about until just now but I did feel like they treated Hilary like their slave by making her pander and stop the roll call. That was the most amazing thing I saw. To me that was such a low blow like making her eat her dinner from off the floor. I find that amazing but they are obviously so anti-woman. What a revelation, seriously. Talk about women being played for fools by the Dems. This is utterly amazing to watch. Boy talk about the rug being pulled out from under them. I pray to God that Sarah will pull out her guns and blast these people.
I did not hear Sean but I think he is right. Right now I don't have cable but I can get FNC using MobiTV. I have just run out of my three day trial. I may enroll the next couple of months for the commentary. I am actually interested in the campaign.
Jmk, I took a look at the article of Obama talking about his "experience". This guy's ego is the size of the Goodyear blimp. No wonder so many people believe he is arrogant.
Obama"“My understanding is that Gov. Palin’s town, Wassilla, has I think 50 employees. We've got 2500 in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe 12 million dollars a year – we have a budget of about three times that just for the month,” Obama responded.
I guess he really expect people to believe that Obama is the one managing his own campaign and not his campaign MANAGER David Axelrod lol. He can only pull the his trick on people that are up to speed and are totally naive when it comes to obama. So I guess in the world of Obama, lying about running a campaign is the same as having experience dealing with natural disasters?
First off...Bristol Palin is innocent in this matter. She's obviously a "typical teenager". As Senator Obama stated, "candidates children should be off limits".
The matter here is the constant mantra, and political talking point, that the Republican party is the "party of family values." Since the 2000 election (post the Bill Clintons "weeny" years), Republicans as one of their "core" values, has touted the out-of-wedlock birth rate as a cause of the deterioration of the family, welfare dependency, crime and delinquency just to name a few.
Suddenly there seems to be no castigation by those same voices that have stood so firmly against teen-pregnancy. Time and time again conservatives have laid blame on those parents who were negligent in rearing their children with the "values and virtue" of abstinence.
Double standard or blatant hypocrisy?
I think I might be on to something.
Tyrone, I am sure that by being a "conservative" you are considered a "traitor" or whatever offensive term they have, since you do not follow the traditional line that blacks have with the Democratic party.
We saw the attacks on Clarence Thomas.
I deduce that the liberals, while claiming to be "tolerant," only support liberal blacks.
The same can be said for women, who are "supposed" to be liberal, support abortion, etc.
A successful woman who doesn't subscribe to the liberal expectations (like blacks supposed to be pulling the lever for Dems) is vilified outright.
McCain's pick is called "pandering" and "insulting" by liberals (especially women), and I see similar attacks done throughout the internet.
She is attacked for having a large family and running for office.
If she was a liberal Democrat, she would be praised and cheered for "not letting her family" get in the way of her career.
Instead, since she is a conservative Republican, she is basically attacked from everything such as not aborting her son to daring to run with five kids.
My point is that there is a double standard when it comes to African Americans, and a double standard when it comes to women in politics.
Where is all the "diversity" that is supposed to be being celebrated?
"Obama came to Maryland two years ago during the midterm elections when Michael Steele was running against Ben Cardin for the U.S Senate. Obama while at Bowie State University said and I quote; " Michael Steele seems like a nice of enough guy, but HIS RESUME IS KIND OF THIN". (Tyrone)
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That election was the one that disapoointed me the most in 2006!
That was a huge loss for Maryland.
Ben Cardin is a poor representative for Maryland. I'd expected Steele to take that contest, although I also thought Harold (a Conservative Democrat) Ford would take his, as well, but the Steele race was the bigger loss, in my eyes.
Maryland lost that night and the country lost as well.
The same people that spoke out against oow pregnancy for teens are the very ones opening adoption clinics and screaming for the churches and other groups to support these girls so they will not feel pressured to abort the babies. They also warn people what happens to women when they have abortions. The Palin family is an example of what those that speak of family values have advocated. It just seems like those things are not reported in the msm. All people hear is that they are against this stuff. What a pity. Again the hypocrites are the ones that are coming against her and her family.
Sidebar: We have a local talk show host here in Tulsa that is also an alternate delegate. His wife is a delegate. He has told us that he has seen JC Watts at the convention. JC is supposed to speak this morning at some event. Maybe he has seen the light. I would hate to think that he would speak at this convention then vote for Obama.
"This guy's ego is the size of the Goodyear blimp. No wonder so many people believe he is arrogant.
"Obama"“My understanding is that Gov. Palin’s town, Wassilla, has I think 50 employees. We've got 2500 in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe 12 million dollars a year – we have a budget of about three times that just for the month,” Obama responded.
"I guess he really expect people to believe that Obama is the one managing his own campaign and not his campaign MANAGER David Axelrod lol.
Absolutely correct.
He actually lauded Dave Axelrod's "experience."
Still, I don't get this tact.
The Palin nomination SHOULD'VE BEEN a gift! It took "the experience issue" off the table for BOTH sides.
Some folks can't even take a gift with any grace.
"The matter here is the constant mantra, and political talking point, that the Republican party is the "party of family values." Since the 2000 election (post the Bill Clintons "weeny" years), Republicans as one of their "core" values, has touted the out-of-wedlock birth rate as a cause of the deterioration of the family, welfare dependency, crime and delinquency just to name a few.
"Suddenly there seems to be no castigation by those same voices that have stood so firmly against teen-pregnancy." (PAA)
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Conservatives ARE indeed "against teen pregancy."
They're against murder too, but some Conservative's kids (like some Liberal's kids) have been guilty of murder.
No hypocrisy there. NONE at all.
What Conservatives are FOR is taking responsibility and that's what the Palin's DID. They've forced the two kids to take responsibility for their actions via Marriage.
Going on "the dole" is NOT "taking responsibility."
I'm an ardent Conservative and I've NEVER been AGAINST public assistance (welfare).
I AM FOR intensifying the social contract between society and those who are on public assistance. I support WORKFARE and mandated job training, etc. Sarah Palin is too.
One thing I NEVER expect to see, is a well constructed argument AGAINST my position on that, because I don't believe one can be constructed.
It would be akin to constructing an argument to show that Sarah Palin's daughter's pregnancy shows her "family values" viewpoints to be hypocritical.
It CAN'T be done and I've challenged a number of very respectable Liberals to do so. I've received one very poor argument and three non-arguments and four abstentions (I presume thos three didn't even see the issue as worth addressing).
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Let me end on an agreeable note, "First off...Bristol Palin is innocent in this matter. She's obviously a "typical teenager". As Senator Obama stated, "candidates children should be off limits". (PAA)
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That much is true and Obama, to his credit, hasn't encouraged any of this and knows it is not a path that would help his campaign in any way. It serves only to alienate women against Palin's attackers and it galvinizes the GOP's Conservative base, which has been tepid until recently.
At this point the Kos Kids (one of whom positied just days ago that "Trig's REAL mother is Bristol" - a proven LIE, since Trig is 4 months old and Bristol Palin is apparently 5 months pregnant) are the Obama camp's greatest liability!
pamela" I find that amazing but they are obviously so anti-woman. What a revelation, seriously. Talk about women being played for fools by the Dems. This is utterly amazing to watch. Boy talk about the rug being pulled out from under them. I pray to God that Sarah will pull out her guns and blast these people"
The attacks on Palin are an exact parallel to the treatment Clarence Thomas received during his nomination and still to this day pamela. Liberals said "he wasn't qualified" plus said that he was a traitor to the causes of blacks. The attacks on Palin are recycled attack that were made on Thomas. I would think that the feminst groups would be the first to come to Palin's defense. Actually they are the ones leading the attack. The legitimate feminists from decades ago are long gone, these new age so called feminists are nothing more then a bunch of liberal political foaming at the mouth fakes.
jmk"That election was the one that disapoointed me the most in 2006!"
The level of ignorance and stupidity in this state is unmeasurable jmk. So it didn't surprise in the least that Steele lost. The way liberals here attacked Steele is very similar to how they are currently going after Palin jmk. Liberals said that Steele wasn't "really black" due to him being a conservative. Now liberals are saying that Palin isn't really a woman in regards to being feminist. So I guess liberals believe they are the offical source to determining what or who a person is identity wise lol
jmk"Ben Cardin is a poor representative for Maryland. I'd expected Steele to take that contest, although I also thought Harold (a Conservative Democrat) Ford would take his, as well, but the Steele race was the bigger loss, in my eyes."
When it looked like the GOP was going more moderate to liberal, I thought about sitting the election out jmk. If the election the was three months ago instead of sixty one days from now, and it came down between Harold Ford vs John McCain, more then likely I would have voted for Harold Ford as a protest vote against the GOP. Since that scenario will never play out, it's McCain all the way.
Yeah even Obama claimed that Clarance Thomas was not qualified. I thought oh boy same ole rhetoric.
I hope they will have her speech online soon after it is over. I will probably just be leaving service tonight when she gets up if she gets up around the same time that Jor Lieberman did last night. If service is over by 9 I will be able to listen to it on the radio on the way home or on my Tilt.
Did you hear that her ssn was stolen. I was listening to Neil Boortz this morning. A caller came in and mentioned that she had heard this reported. Neil said that some Democrats in AK had gathered information on her including her private phone number and ssn. They did this during her campaign for governor. Evidently they still had the information because Neil said that they released that information to the press. He said that he had a copy. He was not surprised that it was stolen and felt that it would probably be impossible to trace who tried to use her number. This made me think about how someone stole Michael Steele's ssn and did illegal credit checks on him during his Senate campaign. Why is it that people are not prosecuted for this?????
I thought about the first time I heard about Tammy Bruce. She was a part of NOW. I believe when she began to see how biased they were towards certain types of women she left.
jmk "At this point the Kos Kids (one of whom positied just days ago that "Trig's REAL mother is Bristol" - a proven LIE, since Trig is 4 months old and Bristol Palin is apparently 5 months pregnant) are the Obama camp's greatest liability!"
If I didn't know better more maybe I don't, but it sure seems like the media is taking their marching orders from the kook of the kaos. They're are report from the McCain campaign that the media now wants a "FRATERNITY TEST" on Trig Palin!! The media hasn't done one hard hitting story on Obama since he announced he was running for President. Why don't the media ask for FRATERNITY TESTS of Obama's kids to make sure they are indeed his? There is no doubt in my mind at all that Sarah Palin is a Dark Horse threat to Obama, his flock, and his boot licking media lackeys jmk.
You are right there have been sexist attacks on Palin.
Hockey mom etc.
anon"You are right there have been sexist attacks on Palin.
Hockey mom etc."
It's like all of Palin's accomplishments don't mean nothing. Do liberals and the media think by pegging her as "hockey mom" people are going to turn against palin. If they do, they really don't understand mainstream America. The fascination with Palin is that she is an everyday person. She is a "hockey mom", a "hunter", and a fisher. For them to try an echo the tag phrase of her being a hockey mom as if it will portray her as being a common woman not worthy to take on the pseudo liberal elites, they better think again.
pamela "Yeah even Obama claimed that Clarance Thomas was not qualified. I thought oh boy same ole rhetoric."
Barack Huessin Obama isn't worthy to even hold the pen that Clarence Thomas writes on pamela. Obama for a guy who has no executive, military, and only 134 days of U.S Senate experience, he doesn't know when to shut his mouth. He keeps doing it because he knows people around him won't call him on his hypocrisy.
Pamela "A caller came in and mentioned that she had heard this reported. Neil said that some Democrats in AK had gathered information on her including her private phone number and ssn."
Sounds like the typical pattern of cheap tricks and dirty deeds that liberals know all so well pamela. . Sounds like Chuck Schummer style tactics with the stealing of her SSN. Obama's campaign and the media had all their opposition research ready for any candidate that McCain would have chosen EXCEPT Sarah Palin. That's why they are running around like a bunch of mental chickens with their head cut off. As for the caller, I bet he got his info from so kook left site. I know without a shadow of a doubt if Palin was a man, this crap would not be happening regardless if he was a conservative or not!!If a person uses her SSN for fraudulent means, I hope Palin sues the hell out of the person who originally stole it in the first place.
pamela "Why is it that people are not prosecuted for this?????"
I'm being perfectly honest when I say this pamela. There is a double standard in it comes to Democrats and Republicans. Look at what happened to Sandy Berger as compared to Scooter Libby. Having a "D" by their name almost gives them free access to do whatever they want. When they break the laws, they are the ones that get a slap on the wrist. Let a republican try HALF the stuff Democrats do and get away with and see what happens.
JMK;"They've forced the two kids to take responsibility for their actions via Marriage."
Yee-haaa! Holler fer all da' kin-folk Pa...wheeze gonna have us ah "shot-gun" weddin'!
On another note...Tyrone, I'm just curious about your thoughts on this?
BOY OH BOY Barracuda pulled out the boxing gloves. Rudy was something but she really went after Obama. I laughed out loud after about five minutes thinking 'so much for those that tried to say that she might step down'. I'm going to check out MobiTV.
pamela "BOY OH BOY Barracuda pulled out the boxing gloves. Rudy was something but she really went after Obama. I laughed out loud after about five minutes thinking 'so much for those that tried to say that she might step down'. I'm going to check out MobiTV."
She definitely showed why McCain picked her no doubt pamela. Her coliseum remark was PRICELESS!!! I couldn't stop laughing. The way she said it made Obama look so tacky lol lol
I heard a newswoman today on ABC radio news say "This is Sarah Palin's last chance to make a first impression". Every speaker tonight pointed out they they know what the media is trying to do. The way the crowd cheered for Palin, the media don't know what it's up against. SHE ROCKED IT!! The true act of defiants by Palin towards the media and her critcs was at the end when she had all her family standing next to her on stage then John McCain came out. That was the photo op that said isn't going nowhere! CLASSIC!
I agree. I was laughing all throughout her speech. I was in my car for the first 10 minutes or so. It got stronger as she went along. All I could see in my mind were a pair of boxing gloves:) You can imagine how she will play here in OK. I am looking forward to local talk radio in particular in the morning. They appreciate her as a family woman along with her career. I'm sure they love the picture of her aiming her gun:)
I missed the first portion. I really wanted to see Michael Steele. Mom recorded it for me while I was at service. I also wanted to hear the hour about economic policy. The Democrats were ragging on them for not dealing with this last night.
I will be home tomorrow night to watch the entire session. However the speech I wanted to hear was barracuda's. She did good. I heard enough of what she says that she will do to make me more interested in the rest of the campaign. I'm sure more details will come out, especially when the veep debate happens.
JMK;"I AM FOR intensifying the social contract between society and those who are on public assistance. I support WORKFARE and mandated job training, etc. Sarah Palin is too."
HUHHHH??? Do you really think Palin's daughter would have to, or even need to, go on the dole? Palin supports "workfare" for POOR people..not her own!!!
I'm not absolutely sure how much Palin's are worth, but it's for sure it far more than the "average" Alaskan (or American for that matter). I believe I saw an article that said she once had a cushy job with the Alaska Oil and Gas Commission paying over $120k a year.
But wait...come to think of it, Palins daughter, and soon to be grandchild, will indeed benefit from taxpayer dollars!
Governor Palin is an Alaskan State employee, thus medical benefits for herself and her children are paid by the state...epso facto, Bristol, being a dependant minor of the governor, is covered by TAXPAYER DOLLARS!
Just think, if McCain wins and Palin becomes VP, Bristol would fit right in D.C.! She could get WIC, Food Stamps and ADC right along with the other single moms in the capital! (ROFLMAO...)
Unless of course the Palin's choose to do the "right thing", and pay "ALL" the medical expense's themselves...
pamela"All I could see in my mind were a pair of boxing gloves:) You can imagine how she will play here in OK. I am looking forward to local talk radio in particular in the morning. They appreciate her as a family woman along with her career. I'm sure they love the picture of her aiming her gun:)"
Two local talk show guys said that when Sarah gave her speech, they flipped the channel at the end of the speech and turned to MSNBC. They said the reaction of Olberman, Mitchells, and Mathews was like someone died!!!lol They were in shock! As for Steele, hi was on his game and had the crowd eating out of his hand pamela. On a scale to 1 to 10 his speech was a 20, it was that good pamela. You are definitely in for a treat when you watch the whole thing.
I will grab Mom's recording. I need to get a recorder. He was in OKC a few weeks ago. I smiled listening to him.
I'm glad to see the body slam that happened last night. I knew she would probably be strong but she beat me in boldness for sure. The women are calling the program. They have had more calls from women than ever before. I'm telecommuting today. I'm not going to miss this commentary.
The beautiful black man's speech was on C-SPAN.org (part one of day 3 two hours into the video). You were right. The speech is amazing. He needs to run again. His Senate campaign provoked me to give my first political contribution EVER, even though I live in OK. If he runs in another national campaign he will get some more cash from me.
"JMK;"They've forced the two kids to take responsibility for their actions via Marriage."
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"Yee-haaa! Holler fer all da' kin-folk Pa...wheeze gonna have us ah "shot-gun" weddin'!" (PAA)
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Absolutely! THAT'S called "taking responsibility."
The guy (Levi Miller) will be on the hook for child-support for a kid he's acknowledged as his own....too bad that sort of thing doesn't go on more often in trailer parks and housing projects where 35 y/o men routinely impregnate teenaged girls and deny responsibility.
"The level of ignorance and stupidity in this state is unmeasurable jmk. So it didn't surprise in the least that Steele lost. The way liberals here attacked Steele is very similar to how they are currently going after Palin jmk." (Tyrone)
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Sad, but that's an unfortunate problem in most northeastern and Mid-Atlantic urban areas.
The attacks on Steele were some of the most vile, especially the one from the black guy from Queens who smeared him from afar.
"When it looked like the GOP was going more moderate to liberal, I thought about sitting the election out jmk. If the election the was three months ago instead of sixty one days from now, and it came down between Harold Ford vs John McCain, more then likely I would have voted for Harold Ford as a protest vote against the GOP." (Tyrone)
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Honestly, I'd take Harold Ford over John McCain too, and not as a "potest vote."
McCain's been terrible on the border issue, I'm skeptical of his support for tax-cuts.
Harold Ford is actually MORE Conservative than John McCain....it's only too bad harold Ford isn't running.
"HUHHHH??? Do you really think Palin's daughter would have to, or even need to, go on the dole? Palin supports "workfare" for POOR people..not her own!!! (PAA)
There's no indication that Palin WOULD favor unrestricted Public Assistance IF her daughter were destitute. NONE at all.
Why do folks like you and I and the over 70% of Americans who support WORKFARE over welfare, do so?
Because (1) it stops double dipping (stealing), (2) it forces people who are receiving public assistance to recognize that they are required to WORK for their sustenance.
That's why we agree on this issue.
JMK
I totally agree about workfare. There is a mother who was not forced to work when she had her two children oow. She was on the system forever. She got pregnant with a 3rd one but the baby was stillborn because of alcohol and heroin use. It appears that she had psychiatric problems that are being controlled by psyche drugs. At least now she had gotten things in order and is working. Her 21-year-old daughter had two children oow by two different men by the time she was 19. She did her one-year training and is now working. She will be off the system in a few years after her second child gets a certain age (forget what the law says). The only thing I think could be changed in workfare is to allow two years of training instead of only one year. At least an associates degree could be earned at a junior college.
I also agree that something should be done to make fathers responsible for their children. However I do question in some instances the couple marrying may not be the best solution. I agree that it is indeed best for children for their parents to be married. However I have seen situations where couples married because of a oow pregnancy that should never have married. If the man (young or otherwise) is a responsible man that does not live recklessly by all means get married. The woman may have gotten pregnant by a loon that does not want to marry or take responsibility. Should she chain herself to a loon the rest of her life? There is no guarantee that just because he marries her that he will be a responsible husband or father. He may not take financial responsibility even if married. Believe me when I say I am thinking of a very young woman (maybe 25 or 26 years old) that got pregnant when she was 17 (new Christian) by a 28-year-old out of control Christian man. He already had one failed marriage when he got this teenager pregnant. They did 'the right thing' and got married when she was 19. They had two more children after marriage (not sure if these children were expected or not). She found out that he is a gambler and incredibly controlling. You can imagine the financial problems they are having. She and probably he are both miserable. Two times that I know of she has considered leaving him but she has no skills to make any real cash to support her three children. At this point he is being totally irresponsible with the money he makes. I humbly believe she should have completely cut him loose and raised the son born oow alone. Knowing her as I do she would have taken advantage of workfare and gotten some type of education. I say this as a strong Christian that believes people should live according to the Bible says about sexual behavior and the seriousness of marriage.
BTW I heard that Levi's mother said that they had talked about marrying before she got pregnant. I guess she was telling the truth. I know here in OK that would not be an unusual discussion for high school teens to have. In fact one of my co-workers has a son that just graduated from high school this past spring and wants to marry his girlfriend. This is an unusual case because he just enlisted in the National Guard. HOWEVER there have been a whole lot of young folk here over the 30 years I have lived her that got married right out of high school. A good number of those couples I have met after being married for decades. Hopefully these two will make it with the support of both families AND realizing that their parents are not the ones responsible for their child.
CB,
I'm hearing more and more conservatives say that they were going to sit out the presidential race. I know I was seriously consider only voting for Congress and local stuff this round. Those that have changed their minds and decided to vote for the ticket are doing so purely because of Barracuda thinking that she might run for president if McCain decides not to run or because of term limits.
I humbly feel that she has booted Huckabee and Romney out of the running for president. I know I would not have been all that excited about either of them. Romney was fine but too recent of a convert to conservative principles (other than financial) for my comfort level. I have a serious problem with Huckabee's character. Being from a neighboring state from AR he was not a very friendly governor. This may sound like hicksville to urban folk but it clearly shows his lack of character in a way that most people would not know about. The Arkansas river goes through AR and OK. We have had problems for decades, including the eight years that Huckabee was governor, with chicken poop in the water flowing from AR and other states. It has gotten so bad that our attorney general has complained and I believe sued the offending states to help with the cleanup costs. Huckabee did not even acknowledge the obvious problem. I guess he had other things to do. I also did not like how he tried to show that he was a good Christian politician by telling the press that he was not going to go negative and at the same time gave the press the ad he was NOT going to run. I have no words about how furious I was that he did that. I was insulted that (1) he was so blatantly prideful while feigning humility and (2) that he thought evangelicals were that stupid not to see through that obvious political trick. The sad thing is that he was probably right about number #2. I was horrified that Christians said he was a good candidate. We see how long that feigned humility lasted, didn't we? I knew that I would NEVER EVER consider him regardless if he had the right stands on the issues. He reminded me of men that will say anything to get a girl to have sex with them. UGH three times.
PLEASE Barracuda if you want to PLEASE PLEASE run for president. I guarantee you if any liberal is happy about Barracuda being the veep pick for McCain it is Hilary Clinton. She is probably gloating on the inside thinking about how the Democrats feel about how they 'made her' eat her food off the floor. She is probably thinking that they realize they made a huge mistake in dissing her like they (and the media) did. I bet that if Barracuda decides to run for president the hypocritical Democrats will be screaming for Hilary to run. That will be the best election season in my lifetime:)
jmk"Absolutely! THAT'S called "taking responsibility."The guy (Levi Miller) will be on the hook for child-support for a kid he's acknowledged as his own....too bad that sort of thing doesn't go on more often in trailer parks and housing projects where 35 y/o men routinely impregnate teenaged girls and deny responsibility."
It's amazing that Allen thinks that Levi Miller taking responsibility for his actions is some how a bad thing jmk.
Then again liberal logic dictates that anything that is right in nature must be wrong somehow. The family unit is the nucleolus of any modern civilization, No wonder there's so many problems in the schools and with gangs these days. Lack of a family unit and lack of guidance. I applaud Levi and Bristol for doing the right thing too jmk.
jmk"Sad, but that's an unfortunate problem in most northeastern and Mid-Atlantic urban areas."
It's come to a point that I REALLY REALLY REALLY can't STAND Baltimore and even Maryland jmk. Baltimore once upon a time was actually a decent city. Just observing how liberals policys and lifestyle destroy and decay big cities is enough evidence to why liberalism is actually poison.Sometimes I actually feel like the last human being not infected by a hoard of cluessless, dumbed down, zombies in a "Night of the LIberal zombie dead"movie. I truly can't wrap my brain around it jmk. Liberals have been claiming for so long how much they embrace diversity, but the truth has soon that they only embrace "racial diversity" and not "ideological diversity". Liberal females have called Palin every negative name to down her as a woman. I guess that's why I can so relate to Sarah Palin. She is going through what many conservatives and republicans have going through if they are black, jewish, hispanic, asian, or women.
CB says;"It's amazing that Allen thinks that Levi Miller taking responsibility for his actions is some how a bad thing jmk."
Don't put words in my mouth Tyrone... I said on one of the other threads that "IF" Levi -JOHNSTON- and Bristol were to get married, good for them. That's not the point!!! The point is, Bristol Palin is a sexually active, pregnant teenager!!!
AGAIN CB says;"It's amazing that Allen thinks that Levi Miller taking responsibility for his actions is some how a bad thing jmk."
Taking responsibility for what??? Having unprotected sex as teenagers and getting pregnant. Responsibility for actions that made them more vulnerable to sexually-transmitted diseases?? And you "applaud" them for "doing the right thing"?? Suddenly it's become the "right thing" to be sexually active as a teenager... and pregnant to boot!!!
As I said before, simply because her mother is the Republican VP nominee, conservatives are suddenly accepting of behavior that once was considered "unacceptable"...so, who's foolin' who?
I have yet to read or hear "ONE" McCain supporter denounce Sarah Palin's acceptance of her teenage daughters "active sex life" as unacceptable.
JMK;"The guy (Levi Miller) will be on the hook for child-support for a kid he's acknowledged as his own....too bad that sort of thing doesn't go on more often in trailer parks and housing projects where 35 y/o men routinely impregnate teen-aged girls and deny responsibility."
The guy, Levi -JOHNSTON- might be on the hook to "pay child support", but presently he couldn't even "pay attention", because he's still a High School hockey player!!
And how in the hell do you know if it's his child or not? Levi can assume it is because he admits having sex with her. Hell, she's a sexually active teen-ager. Who knows how many partners she's had...
And, there's only one difference between those in "trailer parks and project housing" and a governors kid...she's the governors kid!!!
What if Bristol Palin were "NOT" the daughter of a state Governor or potential VP candidate? The odds are (considering whats known about Levi "Johnston's" background) that he would have been one of those "trailer parks or housing projects" types that would have shucked his responsibility's. (according to your assessment, of course...)
JMK;"There's no indication that Palin WOULD favor unrestricted Public Assistance IF her daughter were destitute. NONE at all."
And there's no indication that Palin "WOULD NOT" favor unrestricted Public Assistance IF her daughter were destitute. NONE at all. She has "no opinion" posted on the political tracking website "On The Issues".
But that's not my point. The fact is Palin has the monetary and political resources, to insure that her daughter and grandchild's "needs" and "wants" are met and satisfied.
But, on the other hand, and as I said previously, could you imagine if McCain wins and Palin becomes VP, and Palins daughter on the dole recieving WIC, Food Stamps and ADC? How about a "workfare" postion as a nursing orderly in a run down D.C. senior citizens nursing home? Better still, the Vice Presidents grandchild in a northeast section D.C. daycare facility!
Honestly, I would love to see that! It would be great to have the so-called "D.C. elites" and bluebloods utilize the same institutions as "common" poor folk.
Hell, since conservatives are now okay with active teen-age sex and out-of-wedlock pregnancy, it's no doubt that Bristol is now the "teen-age conservative role model"!!
I'd ponder that if McCain and Palin win the Whitehouse, dozens of conservative teen-age girls will get "knocked-up", say they're going to get married (or have shotgun weddings) and make for plenty of "joyous" Republican Senators and Congressional Reps.!!! Hey. maybe they could move some of those FEMA trailers to the White House and the Capital building for all those new Conservative Republican teenage moms!!! (and their high school hockey player shot-gun-wed "baby's daddy")
I'll be "Dog Gone"....
I just looked at Palins "On The Issues" page, not 8 hours ago! Looks like it's been "very recently" updated. Now it shows 3 very weak comments on the "Welfare and Poverty" issue. (hmmmmm?)
Oh well, luck for us News Hounds has a sreenshot of her "Issues" page showing her lack of opinions.... of course until her VP nomination!
"And how in the hell do you know if it's his child or not? Levi can assume it is because he admits having sex with her. Hell, she's a sexually active teen-ager. Who knows how many partners she's had..." (PAA)
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Perhaps you're unaware that the courts have ruled that a "father" who as assumed paternity, even if later exculpated by DNA evidence, can still be required to maintain that responsibility (child support payments) since he has willing assumed that role.
In places like NYC, where some women, for any number of reasons, have not cooperated with the authorities as to paternity, DNA has been used by the courts to track down dead-beat dads and either garnish their wages or go to jail.
That too, has become a "values issue."
p allen "Don't put words in my mouth Tyrone... I said on one of the other threads that "IF" Levi -JOHNSTON- and Bristol were to get married, good for them. That's not the point!!! The point is, Bristol Palin is a sexually active, pregnant teenager!!!"
You do it all the time with me Allen, how does it feel? lol Here's the point that you aren't getting allen.Read these words very very carefully. I want you to dwell on them for a minute or so after reading them ok. Here we go. MOST AMERICANS CAN CARE LESS ABOUT BRISTOL PALIN'S PREGNANCY.
p allen "Taking responsibility for what??? Having unprotected sex as teenagers and getting pregnant. Responsibility for actions that made them more vulnerable to sexually-transmitted diseases?? And you "applaud" them for "doing the right thing"?? Suddenly it's become the "right thing" to be sexually active as a teenager... and pregnant to boot!!"
Now who's putting words in people's mouthes allen? What Bristol and her boyfriend do behind closed doors isn't any of our business. Two weeks ago, three weeks ago, you never heard of and could have cared less about Bristol Palin. If you seen her passing on the street,you wouldn't have given her a second look or thought. Be honest for once allen. You are simply taking a person's daughter and using her as a political football. I don't know how she became pregnant, and its none of my business and I really don't care to know. Yes I applaud them for "doing the right thing". I don't believe anyone in the world thinks or actually believe they are "perfect". Bristol knows she's not. She knows she made a mistake, and her FAMILY LOVES HER AND FORGIVES HER.So who is anyone outside of their family who don't even know her to say other wise?
P Allen "As I said before, simply because her mother is the Republican VP nominee, conservatives are suddenly accepting of behavior that once was considered "unacceptable"...so, who's foolin' who?"
Are you a Christian Allen? I'm just wondering. If you are, then you should know the saying "LOVE THE SINNER NOT THE SIN". I think I figured it out allen. You think that conservative Christians ostracize people in their flocks that do wrong. That's not how it works. Maybe you can quote where I said that it was "acceptable" as the norm allen. Do you think that conservative Christians should stone Sarah Pallin politically because of the actions of her daughter allen?!! And they try and label conservatives as extreme lol. You take the cake allen. You should read the bible allen and check out john 8:7
"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
Think about it allen.
P allen"Hell, since conservatives are now okay with active teen-age sex and out-of-wedlock pregnancy, it's no doubt that Bristol is now the "teen-age conservative role model"!!"
When did you become so concerned about what conservatives think in regards to teenagers having sex out of marriage. If I recall Allen, didn't you say you are a liberal in regards to this issue? It was liberals that brought Bristol into the public spotlight not conservatives. People like you Allen are the ones obsessing over it. This is such a non issue, it truly is bordering on desperation allen, but it is funny to watch though.
"The point is, Bristol Palin is a sexually active, pregnant teenager!!!" PAA)
No, that's the tragedy!
Now, who's fault is it?
I and most Conservatives and values voters would say it's due to our permissive, over-sexualized media and explicit ("how to") sex-ed that teaches things like "promiscuity is natural" (it's not) and that "homosexuality is a healthy, natural alternative to heterosexuality," when in fact, homosexuals have significantly shorter lifespans due to higher rats of Hepatitis, other sexually transmitted disesases and AIDS, not to mention a higher rate of violence within that community. In fact, homosexuality is a sexual deviancy (something that deviates from the accepted norm) as much as bestiality, group sex and necrophilia are. The fact that homosexuals claim "homosexuality is NOT a choice," does not make it unique, as I'm equally certain that no one CHOOSES to have a compulsion for bestiality, group sex or necrophilia, either.
So, it's more likely than not, isn't it, that Bristol Palin's teen pregnancy vindicates and validates Sarah Palin's stance on sexual permissiveness, our over-sexualized entertainment media and explicit sex-ed?
CB;"When did you become so concerned about what conservatives think in regards to teenagers having sex out of marriage."
The moment they mentioned it!
JMK;"I and most Conservatives and values voters would say it's due to our permissive, over-sexualized media and explicit ("how to") sex-ed that teaches things like "promiscuity is natural"
and;
"So, it's more likely than not, isn't it, that Bristol Palin's teen pregnancy vindicates and validates Sarah Palin's stance on sexual permissiveness."
Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!
Conservatives "claim" they are the party that "REJECTS" all of those ideas...
By claiming that "it's the media" is scape-goating your own self propagating set of so-called "moral values."
Are Americans supposed to be so naive to believe that every time a conservative has a homosexual affair, an out-of-wedlock pregnant teen, commits adultery, cheats on his taxes, or even commits murder, that he or she is a "victim" of some societal shortcoming???
Let's make a contextual comparison of your own views...
Barak Obama attended a church where the preacher made disparaging remarks about the country and some of its people, right? Many conservatives condemned Obama's association with the church and it's pastor. No one to this date has ever been able to prove that Barak Obama ever made statements even vaguely similar to those made by Rev. Wright, yet he was (and still is) chastened by the association.
Gov. Palin is a stuanch advocate of abstinence before marraige. Her teenage daughter is pregnant. Conservatives over the years have condemned ANY, AND, EVERYONE WHO HAD A PREGNANT TEENAGE DAUGHTER!
-Barak Obama is the candidate. Reverend Wright is the problem.
vs.
-Sarah Palin is the candidate.
Bristol Palin is the problem.
(and, before you attempt to say "the difference is Barak "chose" to go to the church", take a moment and think about what I've said...really think about who the "problems" are in both situations...)
Looks guys, all I'm asking is that the same be applied to Sarah Palin that would apply to anyone else....is that to much to ask?
"Are Americans supposed to be so naive to believe that every time a conservative has a homosexual affair, an out-of-wedlock pregnant teen, commits adultery, cheats on his taxes, or even commits murder, that he or she is a "victim" of some societal shortcoming??? (PAA)
Certainly NOT!
Adults, no matter what forces they may have been subjected to, are responsible for their own choices. In fact, THEY are responsible for their minor children's mis-steps as well - and the Palin's are stepping up to that responsibility.
Conservatives, like myself, have no concern over another person's infidelities, homosexual affairs or other pecadillos unless they impact their job duties.
Children up to 18 y/o are NOT as responsible for their choices and that's our legal standard, since a child under 18 CAN'T enter into a contract.
I admire the Palin's for forcing Bristol and Levi to Marry and the family, then taking responsibility for their kid's actions. Good stuff.
I revile people who DON'T take responsibility for their actions and wind up with a teen-aged single parent on welfare.
Same way as I have no problem at all with a physician who does drugs in his free time (UNLESS it impacts his medical skills), because he can afford to do those drugs without harming others.
I have a huge problem with a poor guy or gal doing drugs, when they don't have either the means (income) or the access to do those things without violating the law.
Reverend Wright isn't merely a "problem", he's a cancer, I agree with your likening him to the KKK.
Reverend Wright is just ONE of Barack Obama's "problems" - Tony Rezko and his connections to Iraqi billionaire Nadhmi Auchi (and I hope and trust I'm not giving away any "October Surprise here") are almost certainly going to be far worse.
"Rezko's trial raised a host of questions. Was Mr. Obama able to save $300,000 on the asking price of his house because Rezko's wife paid full price for the adjoining lot? How did Mrs. Rezko make a $125,000 down payment and obtain a $500,000 mortgage when financial records shown at the Rezko trial indicate she had a salary of only $37,000 and assets of $35,000? Records show her husband also had few assets at the time.
"Last April, the London Times revealed that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born billionaire living in London, had loaned Mr. Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before the day the sale of the house and lot closed in June 2005. Mr. Auchi's office notes he was a business partner of Rezko but says he had "no involvement in or knowledge of" the property sale."
Worse still concerning the Rezko-Auchi link is that, "In May 2004, the Pentagon's inspector general's office cited "significant and credible evidence" of involvement by Mr. Auchi's companies in the Oil for Food scandal, and in illicit smuggling of weapons to Saddam Hussein's regime. Because of the criminal probe, Mr. Auchi's travel visa to the U.S. was revoked in August 2004, even as Mr. Auchi denied all the allegations.
"According to prosecutors, in November 2005 Rezko was able to get two government officials from Illinois to appeal to the State Department to get the visa restored. Asked if anyone in his office was involved in such an appeal, Mr. Obama told the Chicago Sun-Times last March, "not that I know of."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122005063234084813.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
THOSE are problems because they go to the heart of what kind of people Barack Obama is beholden to.
Bristol Palin's pregnancy is not a problem at all.
Her family is making the couple take responsibility for their actions (if more poor people would do that there'd BE a lot less poor people)...so Sarah Palin, is, by her treatment of Bristol and Levi, giving America a lesson in personal responsibility.
That's what families SHOULD do, it shouldn't be government doing that.
It's the same lesson that Candice Bergen's character (Murphy Brown) gave on single-motherhood over a decade ago....it's NOT a bad thing, so long as YOU (the individual) take responsibility for it.
Yeah, Liberal cynics whined, "Sure, Murphy Brown's wealthy and well-connected, as if people like that have any problem hiring Nanny's, etc."
PLEASE!
I mean, cry me a river.
Life ain't fair. So well-off women have an easier time being single mothers because they can AFFORD it!
Big whoops!
The lesson in all that is "If you're NOT well-off then maybe that choice isn't your best option." It's certainly not an option I'd relish.
There's nothing in any of that, that runs counter to Conservative views and values.
P Allen quoting me"CB;"When did you become so concerned about what conservatives think in regards to teenagers having sex out of marriage."
P Allen" The moment they mentioned it!"
lol, you just exposed your hand allen again allen. The issue like I said before had nothing to do with Bristol Palin, when you kept attacking Sarah and not Todd you showed your true motivatives behind your "outrage" allen. lol. Thanks for playing, here's some parting gifts.lol
CB says;"The issue like I said before had nothing to do with Bristol Palin, when you kept attacking Sarah and not Todd you showed your true motivatives behind your "outrage" allen."
Come on Tyrone...mentioning Todd can't even be considered a "nice try"! Let's see...hummm..how can I put this? How about the obvious...
Todd Palin is "NOT" the VP candidate!!!!
I didn't mention Sarah's other kids either. Does that give you cause to believe I have other motives? How about Palins sister or ex-brother in law? Hell, the family dog? (or moose, since they are in Alaska...)
As I have said, and will continue to say, Palin advocates teaching abstinence as public policy. Her own daughter was not "taught" abstinence. As Bristol's mother, and a public official that campaigns to make abstinence programs public policy, at the very, very, very least she should be able to hold herself and her family up as a model and proof that teaching abstinence works..... yet, SHE CAN"T!
JMK says;"Bristol Palin's pregnancy is not a problem at all."
A teenager having unprotected sex is "not a problem"...
All I can say to that is, you're just plain stupid!!!!
JMK, can I post that quote on every "abstinence before marriage" web site I can find and use your pseudonym to link back to your blog?
As far as Rezko and Wright, find me a report, document, writ of subpoena, or a note on a table napkin that indicates that Obama did or said something illegal.
And, as far as ties to oil and arms rich middle-eastern types, almost every politician in Washington D.C. can be traced somehow directly, or in-directly and tied to would be or actual scandals.
A teenager having unprotected sex is "not a problem"... (PAA)
No, it's personal issue, same as any other teenaged pregnancy.
Obama's ties to Rezko and Auchi, now THAT'S a "political problem."
"And, as far as ties to oil and arms rich middle-eastern types, almost every politician in Washington D.C. can be traced somehow directly, or in-directly and tied to would be or actual scandals." (PAA)
Not another single ONE.
There's Barack Obama in the USA and George Galloway in England.
His associations with Wright, Phleger and Meeks are enough, in and of themselves.
His dealings with Rezko who tried to get two government officials from Illinois to appeal to the State Department to get Auchi's visa restored, after Auchi delivered a $3.8 Million loan to Rezko, just months before Rezko himself, helped Obama finance a property the Obama's couldn't afford, will be a HUGE "political problem" with or without any subpoenas.
Hey! If the likes of Howard Kurtz can link Obama to Rezko and Rezko to Auchi, even if Obama wins, this could follow him through his tenure, making it Obama's "Monica-gate," a distraction that Bill Clinton claims kept him focusing on al Qaida back in 1998.
That COULD BE the "gift that keeps on giving."
"And, as far as ties to oil and arms rich middle-eastern types, almost every politician in Washington D.C. can be traced somehow directly, or in-directly and tied to would be or actual scandals." (PAA)
JMK replies;"Not another single ONE."
One of the following three has to apply to your statement of, "Not another single ONE."
1. You're kidding..just pulling my leg..
2. You're so far gone as a conservative "hack", that you'll say anything to defend them.
3. When it come to politics, you're not as versed as you think you are!
Off hand, I can name you several D.C. politicians who has ties to middle-eastern arms deals or oil money. But for your "stupid" assertion, I offer this little tid-bit.
"Off hand, I can name you several D.C. politicians who has ties to middle-eastern arms deals or oil money." (PAA)
So can I.
But that wasn't the statement in question.
I said I CAN'T name ANY OTHERS directly involved with the Iraqi Oil-for-Food scandal AND arms dealers who shipped arms to Saddam's Iraq during the coalition invasion of that country.
Ronald Reagan's administration considered Saddam an ally and delivered tons of weaponry to that country during the Iran-Iraq war - a war between Soviet-backed iran and the U.S.-backed Iraq.
That was a wise and prescient alliance AT THAT TIME.
We also supported the Afghan Mujahadim and dealt with many shady arms dealers to get advanced weaponry to those fighters.
That too was a wise and VERY GOOD decision AT THAT TIME.
After all, there's no reason to doubt George Tenet who claims, "We ONLY armed the Afghan Mujahadim, we didn't deal with the other groups (ie. bin Laden's) pouring over the borders to join that fight.
Auchi IS an enemy of the U.S.
Saddam Hussein BECAME an enemy of the U.S. - before that (pre-1989) he was a relaible friend and a trusted ally.
So how many D.C. pols have direct links to financiers directly involved in the Oil-for-Food scandal?
I believe NONE (in the U.S. - Galloway is from England)....unless Auchi can be linked to Rezko and Rezko to Obama.
How many D.C. pols have direct ties to arms dealers who sent arms to Saddam's Iraq during the coalition invasion?
I believe that would be NONE as well.
See what just happened?
I caught you in what is called a LIE of ommission.
You expressed outrage at John Fund's well-researched WSJ piece that questions possible ties between Rezko (Obama's sugar-daddy) and Auchi, and attempted to dilute that to generic arms dealers and people who have links to "oil money."
You're not capable of pulling that off.
Sorry, but you've got to be able to be subtle about such deceptions, in order to pull them off.
That's why you got caught AND smacked right here.
JMK exaggerates, yet again;"I said I CAN'T name ANY OTHERS directly involved with the Iraqi Oil-for-Food scandal AND arms dealers who shipped arms to Saddam's Iraq during the coalition invasion of that country."
"YOU" gave no indication that "Oil-For-Food" was the gist, essence, nor element of your response...NONE! You posted a quote from a John Fund article that included an "accusation" that Obama had dubious ties to Rezko associate, Auchi.
That's why I "re-posted" and restated my statement. I did'nt mention "Oil For Food", it was mentioned in Fund's article that YOU POSTED.
JMK;"So how many D.C. pols have direct links to financiers directly involved in the Oil-for-Food scandal?"
I was very clear in my statement that there are D.C. politcians involved with "middle-eastern types" involving "oil and arms." I said nothing about "Oil For Food". Go back over my post's, read them and see for yourself....
JMK;"How many D.C. pols have direct ties to arms dealers who sent arms to Saddam's Iraq during the coalition invasion?"
JMK;"I caught you in what is called a LIE of ommission."
Wait just a minute here...
You're calling me a "LIE" of ommission, based on questions that you're JUST NOW ASKING?? Questions based on subjects that you wish to address now, but never posed nor indicated that you wanted me to answer???
What's wrong man? Do I upset you that much? Are you hurting inside?
Honsestly JMK, I don't like this side of you. Take a pill or get a punching bag...just do something other than "make s%#t up" in a scoundrel like attempt to pretend to yourself that "lil' ole P. Anthony Allen" is wrong!
BTW, American companies, politicians and surrogates "have" sold, transferred or have been "directly or indirectly" in exporting arms and weapons material to America's enemies in the past. How about taking a trip down that road?
""YOU" gave no indication that "Oil-For-Food" was the gist, essence, nor element of your response...NONE!" (PAA)
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Uhhhh, yeah....I DID!
"Worse still concerning the Rezko-Auchi link is that, "In May 2004, the Pentagon's inspector general's office cited "significant and credible evidence" of involvement by Mr. Auchi's companies in the Oil for Food scandal, and in illicit smuggling of weapons to Saddam Hussein's regime. Because of the criminal probe, Mr. Auchi's travel visa to the U.S. was revoked in August 2004, even as Mr. Auchi denied all the allegations."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122005063234084813.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but your track record on obfuscation and lies is pretty damning....STILL, I'll let you answer, was that an OVERSIGHT on your part (maybe you skimmed and missed it?) or was it a deliberate lie, on your part?
I CLEARLY referred to John Fund's well-researched WSJ piece that linked Rezko to Auchi and Auchi to both smuggling arms to Saddam's Iraq during the Coalition invasion AND the Oil-for-Food scandal.
Just wondering.
"American companies, politicians and surrogates "have" sold, transferred or have been "directly or indirectly" in exporting arms and weapons material to America's enemies in the past. How about taking a trip down that road?" (PAA)
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Uhhhh, like this?
"Ronald Reagan's administration considered Saddam an ally and delivered tons of weaponry to that country during the Iran-Iraq war - a war between Soviet-backed iran and the U.S.-backed Iraq.
"That was a wise and prescient alliance AT THAT TIME.
"We also supported the Afghan Mujahadim and dealt with many shady arms dealers to get advanced weaponry to those fighters.
"That too was a wise and VERY GOOD decision AT THAT TIME.
"After all, there's no reason to doubt George Tenet who claims, "We ONLY armed the Afghan Mujahadim, we didn't deal with the other groups (ie. bin Laden's) pouring over the borders to join that fight."
Hmmmm, seems like I DID "go down that road" and I gave their correct historical context as well.
Once again, I ask you - OVERSIGHT or deliberate lie on your part?
Your expressed outrage leads me to believe you live in your own faux reality, where you haven't been caught comparing Nahdmi Auchi, a man who was apparently directly involved in the Oil-for-Food scandal AND smiggling arms to Saddam's Iraq during the Coalition invasion, to "oil and arms rich middle-eastern types.
So, IF the Rezko-Auchi link is proven, then the already KNOWN link between Obama-Rezko (Rezko helped the Obama's finance a home) would change your mind on this election?
If so, then that's REAL progress!
"What's wrong man? Do I upset you that much? Are you hurting inside?
"Honsestly JMK, I don't like this side of you. Take a pill or get a punching bag... (PAA)
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I'm not angry or upset at all.
I do get tired of having to correct your (what I see as) deliberate obfuscations and lies (comparing Auchi a man who's travel Visa to the U.S. was revoked over his Oil-for-Food violations and smuggling arms to Saddam's Iraq during the Coalition Invasion.
That, and your inanely comparing that to the Reagan administration's rightful and strategic USING of Saddam's Iraq AGAINST then Soviet-backed Iran.
But it doesn't upset or anger me to correct you time and time again.....maybe you're projecting a bit???
JMK;"Uhhhh, yeah....I DID!"
Uhhhh, NO YOU DIDN'T!
The reference was John Funds, not yours! If "YOU" take notice, I put the very fist word in that post in quotation marks...the word "YOU"!
You should have expressed your concerns as an acknowledgement, a specific acknowledgement citing what "quote" led you to your "opinions". Any good writer knows that. Hell, your cut and pasted quote is the same as placing a link to the article. How in the hell am I to know which part of someone else's essay you're referring to?
My comment still applies to Fund's entire essay, that's to say the many D.C. politicians can be linked to "oil and arms" middle-eastern types, and other corrupt activities.... take a number and wait, you'll see many more.
Also I've learned to never give you the "benefit of the doubt." You've shown your true colors time and time again. (as you are doing in this conversation) Your attempting to clean up a stupid statement is no more than I expect from you! That is to say, "you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."
JMK;"Hmmmm, seems like I DID "go down that road" and I gave their correct historical context as well"
I told you to!
And, say wudddd? So "NOW" you're adding "context" to your "quotes"? No more after the fact, huh? The way I see it, it's just more of the same weasel like tactic's. (that's to say that now you're putting "perfume and lipstick on a pig")
JMK;"That, and your inanely comparing that to the Reagan administration's rightful and strategic USING of Saddam's Iraq AGAINST then Soviet-backed Iran.
There you go again... Yet, "stupid is as stupid does"...
I never mentioned the Reagan administration, YOU DID! Not once did I insinuate, imply nor reply to anything that happened in the Reagan administration! YOU DID!
I was referencing the WPo article I posted the "tid-bit" link to. I know you read it.....right?
"But the man who gathered checks from them is no stranger to McCain -- he shuttled the Republican on his private plane and held a fundraising event for the candidate at his house in Delray Beach, Fla.
Harry Sargeant III, a former naval officer and the owner of an oil-trading company that recently inked defense contracts potentially worth more than $1 billion, is the archetype of a modern presidential money man. The law forbids high-level supporters from writing huge checks, but with help from friends in the Middle East and the former chief of the CIA's bin Laden unit -- who now serves as a consultant to his company -- Sargeant has raised more than $100,000 for three presidential candidates from a collection of ordinary people, several of whom professed little interest in the outcome of the election" (Go to the "tid-bit" link)
So now you're the culprit in this "lies of omission" game, right?
But since you brought up the Reagan administration, let's expose more of your "lies of omission"!
Oliver North, John Poindexter, Caspar Weinberger and the forgetful, senile, Sargent Shultz actor, "I know nothing, I see nothing"- Ronald Reagan SOLD and traded arms to our known enemy of the time, IRAN! (smack!)
Lie of omission? Absolutely! Conservative hack? Without a doubt
"The reference was John Funds, not yours! If "YOU" take notice, I put the very fist word in that post in quotation marks...the word "YOU"! (PAA)
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My entire post was predicated on Fund's article dopey.
Pleading stupidity on your part is no excuse.
Fund's assertion IS my own in this case.
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Your WaPo piece had no links to any unsavory people.
The former leader of the CIA's bin Laden Unit is an honorable man, who did an admirable job for an admirable agency - the CIA.
America has many legimate friends in the Mideast aside from Israel.
The UAE, Kuwait, the Karazai and Malachi governments, etc. are all friends of the U.S. in the Mideast.
I see no problem there and that WaPo piece didn't infer (for obvious legal resons) that any of those "friends" were actually enemies of the U.S. as Nahdmi Auch is.
Moreover, I DID and still do support the so-called Iran-Contra affair! It was revealed in 1986 as a result of some earlier events during the Reagan administration. It began as an operation to increase U.S.-Iranian relations, wherein Israel would ship weapons to a moderate, politically influential group of Iranians opposed to the Ayatollah Khomeini; the U.S. would reimburse Israel for those weapons and receive payment from Israel. The moderate Iranians agreed to do everything in their power to achieve the release of six U.S. hostages, who were being held by Hezbollah.
WHO WOULDN’T support that anti-Khomeini, pro-U.S. plan?!
Over time, large modifications to the plan were instituted by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North of the National Security Council in late 1985.
In North's plan, which I also whole-heartedly supported and still support, a portion of the proceeds from the weapon sales was diverted to fund anti-Sandinista and anti-communist rebels, or Contras, in Nicaragua.
Again, I believe that upwards of 70% of Americans would agree with me that “communists are sub-humans,” whom it is impossible to dialogue with, they must be put down the way a rabid animal must be.
I believe that certainly Lt. Colonel Ollie North believed as I do, that’s for sure.
Iran-Contra was a GREAT paln that sought to supply Arms to anti-Khomeini forces within Iran and use the proceeds from the sale of those weapons to arm the Nicaraguan Contras (anti-communist freedom-fighters) and the anti-communist freedom-fighters in El Salvador as well.
It was a WIN-WIN for America!
Talk about "lie's of omission", propagandizing, selective recall of associative memory...what ever you what to call it, JMK, you've refined all practice OF LIES AND DECEPTION, tuning it into an "art"!
Where's this statement, which also appears in the Wikipedia article;
"The plan eventually deteriorated into an arms-for-hostages scheme, in which members of the executive branch sold weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of the American hostages"
and this one;
The investigation was compounded when large volumes of documents relating to the scandal were destroyed or withheld from investigators by Reagan administration officials. On March 4, 1987, Reagan returned to the airwaves in a nationally televised address, taking full responsibility for any actions that he was unaware of, and admitting that "what began as a strategic opening to Iran deteriorated, in its implementation, into trading arms for hostages."
All the while the administration was supposedly stead fast in touting;
"Let me further make it plain to the assassins in Beirut and their accomplices, wherever they may be, that America will never make concessions to terrorists — to do so would only invite more terrorism — nor will we ask nor pressure any other government to do so. Once we head down that path there would be no end to it, no end to the suffering of innocent people, no end to the bloody ransom all civilized nations must pay."
-President Reagan, June 18, 1985-
JMK;"WHO WOULDN’T support that anti-Khomeini, pro-U.S. plan?!
So selling and transferring weapons to the same group that you call your enemy makes sense to you...right? Your enemy admits blowing up and killing hundreds of you "peacekeeping" soldiers asleep in their barracks, attacking and blowing up your embassy's, kidnapping several of your citizens, and a pledge to see you and your allies swept from existence, and you SELL THEM WEAPONS??? Just call it a "PRO U.S." plan and lie about the particulars.... yeah right...
Okay, you've already admitted that you're a liar, so the part about "lying" to cover it up is understandable.
But the fact remains that you're "lying" to yourself if you want anyone to believe that giving, or selling weapons to your enemy makes sense! Under "NO" circumstances does it make sense to supply your enemy with weapons of any kind.
JMK;"Iran-Contra was a GREAT paln that sought to supply Arms to anti-Khomeini forces within Iran"
ANTI-KHOMEINI FORCES WITHIN IRAN???
What anti-Khomeini forces in Iran? "Anti-Khomeini" forces received thousands of "TOW Missiles" and spare parts for the hundreds of "Hawk" radar homing missiles??
THAT IS A BALD FACE LIE!
Bani Sadr, The Mojahedin, Masud Rajavi and other key opponents of the Allatolah fled Iran along with other military officers, and set up shop in Iraq and other countries. ALMOST ALL, IF NOT ALL THE WEAPONS WERE SHIPPED DIRECTLY TO THE IRANIAN GOVERNEMENT...
JMK;"proceeds from the sale of those weapons to arm the Nicaraguan Contras (anti-communist freedom-fighters)"
The same "freedom fighters" that have been accused of human rights violations by almost every organization on earth!
Also, you might want to ask yourself, who the Contra's were fighting, and who's President of Nicaragua presently....
"It was a WIN-WIN for America!"
"So selling and transferring weapons to the same group that you call your enemy makes sense to you...right? (PAA)
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That wasn't what Iran-Contra was, not at all. It was an operation designed to increase U.S.-Iranian relations, wherein Israel would ship weapons to a moderate, politically influential group of Iranians opposed to the Ayatollah Khomeini; the U.S. would reimburse Israel for those weapons and receive payment from Israel. The moderate Iranians agreed to do everything in their power to achieve the release of six U.S. hostages, who were being held by Hezbollah.
"NO U.S. arms were EVER transferred to the Iranian (Khomeini government) they were transferred through Israel TO anti-Khomeini forces within Iran."
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I as I believe most Americans BELIEVE that "communists are sub-humans, so killing communists is not even "sinful" in the eyes of Christian anti-communists.
I'm betting we both share that basic belief.
JMK;"NO U.S. arms were EVER transferred to the Iranian (Khomeini government) they were transferred through Israel TO anti-Khomeini forces within Iran."
Are you brainwashed on bubblegum?? The only party to receive weapons from the U.S., was the party that held the hostages... does that make sense to you? Otherwise, no hostages would not have been released!
Any other scenario or idea would be totally "stupid" if not completely misguided...
Hezbollah was, and is, trained and armed by the Iranians. Hezbollah, at the time, was the group responsible for taking the hostages. Since Hezbollah is an Iranian government faction, common sense should tell you, the weapons would wind-up in the Iranian governments hands....
You've stooped even lower this time JMK. For some strange reason you've resorted to spouting utter nonsense. See what happens when you "lie" just for the sake of lying. You lose all rational, reasonable, sensible and "analytical" perception.
The "arms for hostage" deal DID NOT refer to the 443 hostages held in the U.S. Embassy in Tehran!
The weapons were to be sold to moderate Iranians who'd agreed to do everything they could to achieve the release of six U.S. hostages, who were being held by Hezbollah.
I believe we agree that Colonel North is an American hero and is today, an astute observer of geopolitics.
Was America right to support Saddam's Iraq through the 1980s?
ABSOLUTELY YES! It served a greater purpose - a proxy war against the USSR with the Soviet-backed Iranians.
Was it then OK for America to scuttle that relationship with Saddam over Kuwait and brand him ever after "an enemy of the U.S." beginning around 1991?
Well, it certainly was America's right to do that. Whether it was wise is a question only history will answer after documents no held secret will be uncovered.
Was America right to arm and train the Afghan Mujahadim?
Again, YES, as they were fighting another proxy war against the USSR.
So why is Rezko's links to Auchi virtually TREAONOUS, while numerous American politicians and corporate entities are considered heroes for having armed both Saddam's Iraq (in the 80s) and the Afghan Mujahadim (in the 90s) veritable heros?
That's an easy enough concept to understand; while there are NO permanent alliances, there ARE permanent interests.
Let's skip any focus on heroes like North.
He was wrongly embarassed, let's leave it at that.
Let us now concentrate on Nahdmi Auchi who armed Saddam's Iraq DURING our Coalition invasion AND illicitly and directly profited off the Oil-for-Food scandal.
JMK;"I as I believe most Americans BELIEVE that "communists are sub-humans, so killing communists is not even "sinful" in the eyes of Christian anti-communists.
I'm betting we both share that basic belief."
I am not, and have never been a communist, nor do I hold or believe in socialist tenets. However, neither am I a "barbarian."
Don't tread on me, live and let live, and what you do is none of my business as long as you don't attempt to impose your ideals on me, is the way I live my life.
To say that communist's, simply because of their beliefs, are worthy of "killing", equates to the same beliefs held by Muslim extremist, Nazi ideology of the Third Reich, extreme homophobic's, KKK and skinhead's, and the leaders and states that practice ethnic cleansing.
Furthermore, I don't agree that "most Americans" believe that communist are "sub-human" and deserve death delivered from their hands nor the government. That is an extremist and "INSANE" notion!
Moreover, how is it possible to tell who's a communist unless the individual outwardly acknowledges, or indicates in some way, that he or she is indeed a communist...It's not like "all" communist's have a distinct appearance.
I'm not totally convinced that your "killing-field" type madness would only apply to communist. There are certain groups (ethnic) that are a more distinguishable than your average communist....(the things that make you go...hmmmm?)
"I am not, and have never been a communist, nor do I hold or believe in socialist tenets." (PAA)
Never said you were, in fact,that's why I figure you hold to that same view of those "economic terrorists" that most Capitalists do.
Communists are indeed "economic terrorists with whom Capitalists (like ourselves) simply cannot "live and let live."
In point of fact, these economic terrorists hold views extremely similar to your list of fellow-travellers ("Muslim extremist, Nazi ideology of the Third Reich, extreme homophobic's, KKK and skinhead's....you conveniently left out the NOI, the Black Isarelites and other black hate groups who also and regrettably fit in with those groups as well as communists.
The proof of all this is that NO command economy (communism. nazism, socialism) has ever been imposed on a people absent mass-murder (ie. Hitler's Germany, Stalin's USSR, Mao's China and Pol Pot's Cambodia). Ergo, it is impossible for Capitalists (advocates and practitioners of economic Liberty) and communists to peacefully coexist or "live and let live," as you can see, when they get the opportunity, they DO NOT let their opponents "live."
See what I mean?
The rest of your answer descends into the incomprehensible, except for the all too obvious question, "how is it possible to tell who's a communist unless the individual outwardly acknowledges..."
Uhhhhh.....you CAN'T tell...until they tell.
That is why people who advocate Liberty CANNOT be "live and let live" kinds of folks, or "peace above all else" kinds of folks...LIBERTY must not only be defended ("The tree of Liberty must be constantly nourished with the blood of patriots" T Jefferson) BUT Crusaded for.
That's sort of the problem Liberty has, too many of its so-called advocates mistakenly believe that "live and let live" is a proper mantra.
Communists, radical Islamists, nazis, black nationalists, etc. DON'T embrace the "live and let live" mantra. They know better.
So DO the actual advocates of Liberty.
JMK;"The "arms for hostage" deal DID NOT refer to the 443 hostages held in the U.S. Embassy in Tehran!"
Who said it did???? I'm talking about the "Iran-Contra arms for hostages deal." Hezbollah didn't appear until after the U.S. Embassy hostage crisis.
JMK;"The weapons were to be sold to moderate Iranians who'd agreed to do everything they could to achieve the release of six U.S. hostages, who were being held by Hezbollah."
The idea that weapons "were to be", is not at issue. Also, there were no "moderate" Iranians living (or for that matter "alive") inside of Iran.
Weapons "were" exchanged/sold for the hostages release. Hezbollah held the hostages, Hezbollah released the hostages (one by one), Hezbollah got the weapons, which in turn were procured by the Iranian government...period!
Can you explain or show how these "moderate Iranians" recieved Tow Missile's and spare parts to Hawk Missiles inside Iran? Can you show how, or if these weapons were used against the Khomeini government?
Your account of what actually happened makes no sense...none at all! (smack..and "double smack!")
JMK;"Let's skip any focus on heroes like North.
He was wrongly embarassed, let's leave it at that."
Oliver North was and still is a liar. (a type you definitely can identify with) In typical liar fashion, North corroborated a "fake" story concerning a U.S. air and ground attack in Azizabad, Afghanistan. A Pentagon investigation initially concluded that several Afghan rebel fighters and a few villagers were killed. It has been uncovered that more than 90 Afghan villagers, including at least 60 women and children were killed and no rebels.
North, in my book, is a criminal and a scumbag.
JMK;"you conveniently left out the NOI, the Black Isarelites and other black hate groups who also and regrettably fit in with those groups as well as communists."
No, I didn't "conveniently" leave out so-called "black hate groups". The reason I did not include the NOI or any other black [American] group is simple!
Read carefully now, because I don't want you to misconstrue what you're being asked, nor told....
1. What Black nationalist group in the United States of America has openly attacked and killed other Americans or committed heinous atrocities against others for holding (or being of) a different political ideology, religion, creed, ethnicity or race?
2. Within the United States, how many, and who are the communist groups that are a mortal threat to you, your family or your government? And, if "most" Americans believe as you do, why aren't you and "most" Americans killing them, as you believe they are deserving?
The fact's are that there are no Black nationalist groups that have committed such atrocities. Secondly, there is no communist threat within the U.S., certainly not one that would demand a modern day Sudan type cleansing.
You're pretending JMK. Just be honest, stop hiding and lying...because you're only lying to yourself. It's "Black" people you want to get rid of. Perhaps not "all" black people, just the one's you believe are a "scourge" upon American society. You'd like to "thin the herd" so to speak.
It's a "tell-tale" sign when you attempt to compare the KKK with the NOI. Or the Black Israelites with Hitlers Nazi regime.
The KKK was responsible for thousands if not hundreds of thousands of murders right here on American soil. Documents exist showing that the KKK once had over a million members, and who's doctrine is no different today than what it was 100 years ago.
The NOI has never had no more than 20 to 25,000 members if that many. As a religious based organization, the NOI has never been accused of perpetrating violence on any other American group. Hell, Saudi Arabian nationals killed more Americans in "one day" than the NOI could even dream of killing.
The irony in all this is that, YOU KNOW WHAT I"M SAYING IS TRUE! Yet you make the stupid comparison anyway, Then, you expect me to believe you're lie???
Israel brokered the weapons exchange (SOLD those weapons to enemies of the Ayatollah inside Iran)....huge numbers of moderate anti-fundi Iranians (including a population of Iranian Jews) reside in Iran to this day!
Oliver North is a great American.
The U.S. Military has not and will not ever fight a "surgical war," separating "villagers" from terrorists, nor SHOULD it.
War's a horrible thing....if the Afghan people didn't harbor al Qaida, their villages wouldn't have been bombed....same with Somalia....U.S. gunships tore up parts of Somalia last January, over Somalia's harboring al Qaida as well.
North follows in the footsteps of American Military greats like William Tecumseh Sherman.
You're calling black bigots like those in the NOI, the Black Israelites, the New Black Panther Party, etc., "Cowards," (you might be right, on that)....does nothing to excuse their preaching vile hatred.
In fact, the same can be said of today's Aryan Nation, and other bioted organizations - none of them have even been so much as accused of any violence in recent years....doesn't make any of those groups any LESS hateful and doesn't make your revulting and deliberate blind-spot any less glaring.
I asked a plain and simple question;
"Can you explain or show how these "moderate Iranians" received Tow Missile's and spare parts to Hawk Missiles inside Iran? Can you show how, or if these weapons were used against the Khomeini government?"
Obviously you have no answer...and why don't you have an answer??? Because after the 1979 Iranian revolution, "most" Iranian Jews fled to the U.S. and Israel. The remaining Iranian Jews are discriminated against in every facet of Iranian society.
So what you're saying is Hezbollah freed hostages [in Iran] at the behest of Iranian Jews, who received weapons to fight Hezbollah and the Iranian government...? (I can't stop laughing) YOU STOOOOOOPID!!
Secondly, if a Jew in Iran even "thought" about taking up arms against the Iranian regime, they would be publicly strung up from a crane, and the body left swinging for days, for all to see.
JMK;"You're calling black bigots like those in the NOI, the Black Israelites, the New Black Panther Party, etc.,"
Nope! Not at all. What I said is that they have never committed atrocities such as murder, rape, lynching, voter fraud, jury nullification, voter intimidation and the deprivation of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, against any other race in America. The KKK has done all that and more, and to this day is totally committed to continuing the practice. (if they were allowed to, of course)
JMK endorses!;"In fact, the same can be said of today's Aryan Nation, and other bioted organizations - none of them have even been so much as accused of any violence in recent years"
Okay, now you've let the cat out of the bag....
I said the NOI and other black organizations "have never" committed such violence against other races. And your response is "none of them [KKK, ect...] have even been so much as accused of any violence in recent years"???
That's quite a defensive endorsement of a "historically" violent group. It's funny how you preach hatred and suggest violence against communist. Don't you realize that America has not fought a war against communism since the VietNam war? That was almost 35 years ago! No violence there in recent years either....
So now you're defending the KKK? Honestly, it's no more than I expected from you. Closet bigotry always rears it's ugly head...in your case sooner, other than later.
"Because after the 1979 Iranian revolution, "most" Iranian Jews fled to the U.S. and Israel." (PAA)
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Apparently you know as much about Jews in Iran as you do about ehmoral equivalency of bigotry. "While Jewish communities in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria have all but vanished, Iran is home to 25,000 - some here say 35,000 - Jews."
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html
There is sadly, noway to clai8m that one form of bigotry (for instance anti-black) is "worse than" another (for instance anti-white).
It's the bigotry itself, NOT the fact that one group hasn't shown the wherewithall to act on its sick, twisted beleifs.
Over the past few decades black bigotry has become even more malevolent, malignant and deranged than its perverse white counterpart.
The fact that none of the leading race-hatred groups (from the KKK, to the NOI, to the Aryan nation to the Black Israelites) have killed anyone over the past couple decades DOES NOT, as you seem to suggest, make any of their blatant racial hatred any less repulsive.
The fact that neither the KKK, nor the NOI nor the Aryan Nation has killed anyone over the past couple of decades does NOT, as you AGAIN suggest, make any of those groups less dangerous.
Ironically enough, it was the NOI who was the LAST of those aforementioned hate-groups involved in murder - the San Francisco "Zebra Murders"
"The Zebra murders were the work of one unit of the Death Angels, a group within the black-power, pseudo-islamic group, the Nation of Islam... Candidates would be invited to secret meetings at the NOI-owned Black Self-Help Moving and Storage; to attain the status of Death Angel, each man was expected to kill either nine white men, five white women or four white children. After attaining this goal, a pair of black wings would be attached to his photograph and pinned up in an upstairs room of the self-help building. Although killing and the spread of terror were their main goals, death angel candidates would often use machetes to torture victims over long periods, and some women were also the victims of rape."
If...IF there were some way to make an argument something like, "Anti-white bigotry by blacks is justified and is mostly a reaction to.... I'm sure you would've tried, by now, to make such an argument.
Of course, bigotry is bigorty and there is no way to justify ONE without equally and simultaneously justifying all other forms of bigotry.
That's why I refuse to let you attempt to justify white anti-black bigotry by rationalizing and hailing (as you so often do) black anti-white bigotry.
Stop projecting PAA....I'll never accuse you of "closet bigotry," I call you what you are - an actual and unrepentant racial bigot.
JMK;"Over the past few decades black bigotry has become even more malevolent, malignant and deranged than its perverse white counterpart."
It's all in your mind. No Black group in America has ever threatened to perpetrate unwarranted physical violence against any other religious or racial group.
The Death Angels were no more part of the NOI than the Saudi hijackers of 911 were part of the Saudi government. If NOI leaders had called for attacks on White's, it would have occurred in more cities than just San Francisco...
JMK;"Stop projecting PAA....I'll never accuse you of "closet bigotry," I call you what you are - an actual and unrepentant racial bigot."
The only reason I refer to you as a "closet bigot" is because you "lie" (the admitted liar that you say you are) about your bigotry. But if you wish for me to "call you actually what you are", it's fine by me! You're a lying racist bigot!
Do you feel better now?
"The Death Angels were no more part of the NOI than the Saudi hijackers of 911 were part of the Saudi government." (PAA)
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I just gave you the MOST RECENT example of organized hate-group activity and like the true, vile bigot you are, you defend the indefensible.
What you did with that statement is no different than a nazi sympathizer defending Hitler's extermination camps, or a KKK member defending that bigotry as "defensive violence."
Your on par with such people and that's almost certainly why Liberalism and its tolerance for the absurdly ridiculous black nationalist movement appeals to you.
In your heart, you feel the NOI was "justified" in setting up and supporting the death angel program.
I don't need to know anything more about you.
"The only reason I refer to you as a "closet bigot" is because you "lie" (the admitted liar that you say you are) about your bigotry." (PAA)
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(1) Deliberately misleading pollsters is NOT "lying," it's actually free speech and a valid form of protest into what I and MANY otehrs see as an unwelcome intrusion into the general public's beliefs.....and (2) I'm NOT the one defending murderous racial bigots here...YOU, on the other hand, ARE!
Your idiotic standard ("Spouting hatred isn't really hatred UNLESS its coupled with violence") is not merely wrong, but deliberately malicious, in that you deliberately seek to excuse a form of bigotry that you obviously condone and subscribe to - "black anti-white bigotry."
Your argument isn't that "there's a historical context that makes black anti-white bigotry both more expected and accepted (which ALSO isn't true), your view is that "it really isn't bigotry, since these black bigots haven't engaged in any coordinated campaign of violence."
Worst of all, when I show you clearly and definitively that THAT isn't the case, you actually defend the NOI's killing campaing the way some old school white bigots would defend KKK lynchings.
My view has always been clear - "preaching hate = hate," yours seeks to rationalize one form of race-hatred and despicable and disgusting hardly describes your viewpoint.
JMK;"I just gave you the MOST RECENT example of organized hate-group activity and like the true, vile bigot you are, you defend the indefensible."
I'm not defending the Death Angels. The fact is they were a bunch of murderous, ignorant, stupid (ect...add any negative or destructive adjective here you wish!). I'm saying that they were not a part of the larger NOI organization... that's the facts!!
JMK;"Your idiotic standard ("Spouting hatred isn't really hatred UNLESS its coupled with violence") is not merely wrong, but deliberately malicious, in that you deliberately seek to excuse a form of bigotry that you obviously condone and subscribe to - "black anti-white bigotry."
Oh really....? Spouting hatred is wrong, therefore it's no different than physical violence? Hmmmmm?
JMK spouts hatred;"I as I believe most Americans BELIEVE that "communists are sub-humans, so killing communists is not even "sinful" in the eyes of Christian anti-communists."
(smack!!!)
Hmmmm... An outward call for killing other human beings (a group, whom by the way, has not "attacked you" with violence)seems to be okay in your book! Why the sudden opposition? Can you say...ah...HYPOCRITE! I does appear that the only "subhuman" around here is YOU!
JMK;"Your argument isn't that "there's a historical context that makes black anti-white bigotry both more expected and accepted (which ALSO isn't true), your view is that "it really isn't bigotry, since these black bigots haven't engaged in any coordinated campaign of violence."
Look here "Mr. High-and-Mighty" riding your fake "know-it-all" cloud, "bigotry is bigotry" no matter how you slice it. I believe that, and that is my stance. Be it Black against White, or White against Black, or whatever religion against what ever ideology...it's all the same...
Let me explain something to you in very simply terms, so that you can understand exactly where I stand.
Lets say an openly avowed communist (an American born convert) heard you make that ridiculous statement you made about killing them. If I were a bystander and saw him smack you in the mouth, I would indeed opine that the communist was wrong for striking you. Yet...I would understand "why" he did it, and in a sense...you had it coming! Again, thats not to say that he was right, because I don't believe that no one should physically attacked over a stupid comment...but I can understand.
Similarly, Blacks have been verbally and physically attacked by organizations such as the KKK.
I "DO NOT" (emphasis added purposely) support any type of racist rhetoric spouted by the NOI the Black Israelites or any other Black organization. Yet...I can understand!
What "you don't understand is that, Blacks didn't start the fire that burns between the NOI and White America. The NOI and larger organizations of it's type are a "response" to a racist history. I will concede that some of the rhetoric is "over the top", and in some cases contextually out of date. Comments such as, "white devils" and "the white man is holding me down", are stupid and far from my beleifs.
On the other hand, I have seen much more positive come from the NOI than has ever come out of the KKK. I attended the NOI's Million Man March. Not once did I hear a reference to attacking, killing, destroying, or even blaming any other race. (If there was, I certainly did'nt hear it!)
You once attempted to combat my "NOI does good" statement by implying that the KKK has "anti-drug" programs. Well, with the NOI preaching an "anti-drug" conviction from it's beggining, where do you think the KKK got the idea?
Moreover, during the 50's, 60's and 70's, Black Power was a call for "equality" and "justice". The KKK has taken up a similar mantra..."White Power." Do you really think the KKK's call for White Power is a call for equality and justice? (I know you'll say yes, but I thought I'd ask anyway)
JMK;"you actually defend the NOI's killing campaing the way some old school white bigots would defend KKK lynchings."
The NOI "NEVER" condoned killing anyone. Several idiots calling themselves NOI members perpetrated a heinous crime. The NOI "NEVER" claimed to be responsible for idiots such as the Death Angels.
Conversely, the KKK has claimed responsibility for numerous crimes against humanity.
Can your parents tell you stories of how the NOI came upon them in the darkness of night, threatening and in some cases burning, raping or killing the residents of your town?
Can you tell a story of the NOI bombing White church's?
Can you tell me what state, municipality or courthouse that was ever run by members of the NOI that railroaded and/or denied Whites due process under the law?
Can you show me photos of NOI members "smiling" by a hanging charred corpse of an innocent White victim?
When you're able to come up with a history of the NOI that even comes close to those questions I've asked you, I'll gladly denounce the NOI, The Black Israelites, The Black Panthers, the NAACP, The National Black Caucus, The Southern Poverty Law Center, the National Basketball Association or whatever "Black" organization that you hate!!!
But until then...you'll still be the lying selfish racist bigot hiding in the shadows of your snake-like ways!
“I'm not defending the Death Angels...” (PAA)
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Yes, indeed you ARE!
You do that by defending the NOI, which sponsored those murders.
The Nation of Islam paid for the legal representation of every one of the killers except Jesse Lee Cooks, who'd immediately admitted to his murders.
Moreover, the NOI’s "Black Self-Help" organization in San Francisco was managed by Tom Manney, an NOI member who, according to detectives involved in the case was a former St. Ignatius High School and City College football star. According to Clark Howard, the author of the definitive work on the Zebra killings, Zebra: The true account of the 179 days of terror in San Francisco (1979), Manney lent his black Cadillac to the murderers, who used it in several of the killings. According to Howard, an illegal .32 pistol that Manney owned was the murder weapon in several of the killings, sealing the connection between the NOI and the Death Angels.
This same type of black-on-white serial murder occurred in the Miami area in the early 1990’s. The racist cult of Yahweh-ben-Yahweh began systematically killing whites in the same manor as the Death Angels.
Here’s an accounting of some of the San Francisco murders which were almost comic in their abject cowardice; Vincent Wollin was shot in the back and killed on his 69th birthday. Mildred Hosler, an obese, older woman was shot while frantically trying to get away from her younger, faster attacker. Ilario Bertucci, a 135-pound, 81-year-old man, was killed while walking home from work. Marietta DiGirolamo, a 5’1" white woman was also shot in the back.
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“Oh really....? Spouting hatred is wrong, therefore it's no different than physical violence? Hmmmmm?
“JMK spouts hatred; "I as I believe most Americans BELIEVE that "communists are sub-humans, so killing communists is not even "sinful" in the eyes of Christian anti-communists."
“Hmmmm... An outward call for killing other human beings (a group, whom by the way, has not "attacked you" with violence)seems to be okay in your book! Why the sudden opposition? Can you say...ah...HYPOCRITE!” (PAA)
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That’s NOT “hate on my part,” any more than those who support the death penalty for murderers are “haters,” or those who support the death penalty for, not only terrorists, but “terror supporters” (those who give to terror-front organizations...about 38% of Americans polled say they agree with that viewpoint) are “haters.”
Communists are “economic terrorists.”
That terroristic advocacy and action are what makes them worthy of death.
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"bigotry is bigotry" no matter how you slice it. I believe that, and that is my stance. Be it Black against White, or White against Black, or whatever religion against what ever ideology...it's all the same... (PAA)
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Your enunciated views, defending the NOI’s role in the death angel murders, etc. belie that self-proclaimed viewpoint.
In FACT, THIS “I "DO NOT" (emphasis added purposely) support any type of racist rhetoric spouted by the NOI the Black Israelites or any other Black organization. Yet...I can understand!
“What "you don't understand is that, Blacks didn't start the fire that burns between the NOI and White America. The NOI and larger organizations of it's type are a "response" to a racist history...” is an example of exactly THAT which I’ve accused you of - DEFENDING BLACK anti-white bigotry.
Again, that is beyond revolting because it indicates a sympathy on your part for racial violence that you are obviously unwilling to engage in yourself.
Come on! Show some guts and live what you preach.
JMK;"You do that by defending the NOI, which sponsored those murders."
The national organization of the NOI never endorsed, conspired with, nor admitted to an association with the Death Angels. Since those are the facts, there is only your weak-knee'd feeble attempt to say that I am defending the Death Angels, which I am not...
JMK;"Communists are “economic terrorists.”
That terroristic advocacy and action are what makes them worthy of death."
Wow... I'd bet that you're not even trying to be "bass-ackwards"! I guess it just in your nature... you can't help it.
Lets say you convince some other idiots on the NYFD that killing communist is the right thing to do. So, you and your deranged cohorts have a couple of meeting's in a New York City owned building (aka, A Firehouse), plot, plan and then carry out several killings. According to your way of thinking, the entire NYFD are to be held responsible for your stupid actions!
Here's another question. As a whole, is the NYPD a vile. racist, despicable, bigoted organization? According to "you", they are...
"Lets say you convince some other idiots on the NYFD that killing communist is the right thing to do. So, you and your deranged cohorts have a couple of meeting's in a New York City owned building (aka, A Firehouse), plot, plan and then carry out several killings. According to your way of thinking, the entire NYFD are to be held responsible for your stupid actions!" (PAA)
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Yes, in THAT case, the FDNY (it's not the NYFD, as the Fire Dept was chartered BEFORE the City of NY was) and the City of NY would be responsible for the actions of their paid employees.
Absolutely and without question, but of course, NO citizen has any right to vigilantism nor "to take the law into their own hands."
And in the NOI's case, their culpability was even far worse! The death angels were sponsored by an NOI front organization (the "Black Self Help Organization") run by a long-time NOI member, Tom Manney. The killers used Manney's car and a gun that belonged to him AND "The Nation of Islam paid for the legal representation of every one of the killers except Jesse Lee Cooks, who'd immediately admitted to his murders.
So, yes, the NOI was indeed culpable in the death angel murders....and YOU are again both defending and condoning black anti-white bigotry and there is absolutely no historical context that would make such bigotry either "defensive" or in any way "rationalized."
Look, I'd tell you straight away if there was ANY way to rationalize, condone ("understand"/sympathize with) black anti-white bigotry, but there isn't.
As for the NYPD, it is almost certainly one of the most professional police departments in the entire world.
During the Guiliani administration and under the leadership of the great Bill Bratton, the NYPD brought NYC's murder rate from OVER 2,000/year under the incompetent tenure of Dave Dinkins (the "Jimmy Carter" of NYC Mayors) to under 500/year, saving upwards of of 12,000 lives over the course of Guiliani's 8 year reign, probably more than 80% of those were black and Hispanic lives.
Bratton was, and in many NYC inner city neighborhoods REMAINS a hero to the common, working people of those areas.
JMK;"So, yes, the NOI was indeed culpable in the death angel murders"
Okay....
JMK;"As for the NYPD, it is almost certainly one of the most professional police departments in the entire world."
I asked "are they a racist, bigoted, vile organization, but since you say they're "the most professional police departments in the entire world", I'll take that as a NO!
On August 9, 1997 several NYPD officers proclaiming, "This is Giuliani-time", beat and sodomized Abner Louima. Let's just cut to the chase...Abner Louima, Timothy Stansbury, Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, just to name a few.
In the Louima case it was proven that the officers "conspired" to commit the crime, whereas other reports indicate the convicted officers and others (some of whom not charged and are still NYPD officers to this day)had committed such crimes in the prior to Louima.
Thus, according to you, the NYPD is a "racist, vile and bigoted organization...such as the NYFD would be if you and your cohorts beat and sodomized communist!!!
Let's see you "worm" your way out of that one...
"On August 9, 1997 several NYPD officers proclaiming, "This is Giuliani-time", beat and sodomized Abner Louima. Let's just cut to the chase...Abner Louima, Timothy Stansbury, Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, just to name a few." (PAA)
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The City of NY and the NYPD are culpable (that means "civilly liable for the behaviors of its employees")....four police officers were imprisoned over the Abner Louima assault and the city of NY shelled out nearly $10 million to Abner Louima in a civil judgment.
Same thing happened back in 1986 when a black NYPD cop shot a white teen, about to enter the US Navy the next day, when he claimed his "gun accidentally went off" while frisking the youth, after mistaking him for someone who'd thrown light bulbs from an elevated train platform. That cop was fired, charged with a felony and the family of the victim in that case also won damages from the City of NY.
Of course neither the NYPD NOR the City of NY have ever endorsed racial hatred as the NOI STILL DOES.
In paying for the legal defense of its members in those death angel killings one NOI leader proclaimed "We are defending our soldiers."
The fact that YOU, while on the one hand acknowledge that the NOI's bigotry is as vile and horrific as the KKs and the nazi party, on the other hand you claim to "understand (sympathize with) and go to great lengths to defend and excuse, makes you a vile bigot.
As I noted virtually EVERY nazi and/or KKK member claims that their own bigotry is "defensive bigotry" and a "reaction to black bigotry," so your claims are no different than theirs.
The NOI, like the KKK, the black Israelites, the Aryan nation and the "New Black Party" are organizations that exist primarily to promote hatred.....I've shown you that all of those groups have supported and engaged in mass murder motivated by their racial peculiar racial animus.
Your trying to equate the NOI (one of the most vile hate groups in existance today) with the NYPD proves that you're (1) a disgusting racial bigot (OK, we knew that already) and (2) pretty incredibly stupid, as well, because that's what lamely trying to equate a police department in which members both black and white have misbehaved and were prosecuted BY that department and a hate-organization (the NOI) which defends its racists as "soldiers," is - "incredibly and stultifyingly stupid.
Education can cure "ignorance" (a lack of knowledge) but nothing can cure stupidity (the inability to process knoweledge).
JMK;"The City of NY and the NYPD are culpable (that means "civilly liable for the behaviors of its employees")....four police officers were imprisoned over the Abner Louima assault and the city of NY shelled out nearly $10 million to Abner Louima in a civil judgment."
I as said, I asked you if they were "racist and bigoted" because of the actions it's members, not "responsible" for the actions of it's members.
But then again, if you wish to hold the NYPD as "responsible", and the NOI "responsible", then, I'd guess you are saying the NYPD is a racist vile organization... So from here on out, I'll play along!
JMK;"In paying for the legal defense of its members in those death angel killings one NOI leader proclaimed "We are defending our soldiers."
I guess Sean Hannity was "defending his soldiers" when he claimed Volpe was innocent on his radio show while crooning "Once, Twice, Three Times A Liar" in reference to Louima. I guess the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund (LELDF) was "defending their soldiers" when soliciting donations to defend the officers. I guess hundreds of NYPD officers were "defending their soldiers" by attending fund-raising parties to cover legal fees for the accused officers. Coming to aid of "your fellow soldiers" seems to be all to common among racist type organizations...wouldn't you say?
JMK;"Your trying to equate the NOI (one of the most vile hate groups in existance today) with the NYPD"
I'm not "trying" to equate them, I AM EQUATING THEM! What I've shown you (which of course you will refuse to accept) is that there are "lone wolves" in both organizations.
The fact remains that the NOI, The Black Panther Party, The NAACP and other African American centered organizations were formed as a "RESPONSE" to racism. You can't see that because you "hate"! You hate Blacks just as much as you hate communists (perhaps even more so).
Granted, Blacks, as an American community, have many internal problems that needs to be addressed. These problems cannot be addressed by demonizing the groups that could, for the most part, help Blacks gain self dignity and pride. The idea of Blacks, as a whole, being a viable social, political, economic and religious force scares the "hell" out of you. That's because you like the present state of Blacks in America.
It is the White person, such as yourself, Sean Hannity and Justin Volpe, that harbors a deep seeded hatred for Blacks in America. You and your ilk hide behind a common veil of the "smoke and mirrors."
Your claim of not harboring any racial prejudice, is only used when it suits your agenda...such as "commenting on a Black conservative blog" to appear "fair and balanced" on social racial issues. You're not what claim... you are, what you are... a strange and mentally diluted soul.
Come on now dude, do you really think you've gained a nod of being a decent human being by stating "kill the communists"? As if the United States is hotbed of commies secretly plotting to kill you and your family. It's just plain unprovoked violent predatory nonsense! If no one else here knows, I will gladly translate that mantra... It really means "Kill all the ni@@er's!"
I've proven to you right here in theses posts that the NOI = the KKK.
You initially disagreed.
I've shown you that the NOI's PRIMARY focus and purpose is to disemminate racial hatred, same as the KKK's.
You innaely claimed that "the NOI didn't have the history of racial violence that the KKK did," and I took the time to prove to you that it most certainly DID and that it's violent history is far more recent than that of any other hate-group's.
You've sought to claim that the NOI wasn't responsible for actions (the death angel murders) that that organization not only was implicated in, but that THEY implicated THEMSELVES in!
So now you compare them to a government agency - the NYPD that has NEVER preached racial hatred and has locked up both white and black police officers over various racial crimes.
IF there were some way the case could be made that "only white bigotry was found in the NYPD or other Police Department's around the country," then perhaps someone could try and stretch that out to claim that "they never had a problem with black anti-white bigotry, thereby giving anti-white bigotry a de facto government seal of approval," BUT, of course, there have been numerous cases of black police officers in NYC and around the country sanctioned for and punished over black anti-white bigotry.
The NYPD like the Detroit Metro Police are honorable government agencies, with the seal of approval of both their local, State and the national government.
The NOI is recognized as a hate-group, just as is the KKK.
Even the Southern Poverty law Center which tracks hate-groups has long had the NOI on its list of hate-groups.
As I've noted, virtually EVERY nazi and/or KKK member claims that their own bigotry is "defensive bigotry" and a "reaction to black bigotry," so your claims are no different than theirs, which makes sense, since you share a common racial animus with such people.
I will reiterate that which you apparently CANNOT refute, "Your trying to equate the NOI (one of the most vile hate groups in existance today) with the NYPD proves that you're (1) a disgusting racial bigot and (2) pretty incredibly stupid, as well, because that's what lamely trying to equate a police department in which members both black and white have misbehaved and were prosecuted BY that department and a hate-organization (the NOI) which defends its racists as "soldiers," IS - "incredibly and stultifyingly stupid."
My purpose in noting that is not to insult you (the TRUTH is never an insult) but to enlighten you, and help you see that your vile defense of racial hatred is not at all OK.
You defending the NOI because you believe they represent you or your group is, in EVERY way, as disgusting as the old white bigot who defended the KKK....and equally pathetic, as well.
JMK;"The NYPD like the Detroit Metro Police are honorable government agencies, with the seal of approval of both their local, State and the national government."
I don't know about a the NYPD's "seal of approval", but the seal on the DPD's container is is cracked and leaking!
After the Kwame Kilpatrick debacle, the Detroit Police Department is going to need a total overhaul. There are still unanswered questions concerning the Tamara Green case. (e.g. unsolved murder of the stripper who "allegedly" performed at the Mayors mansion)
JMK says;"You defending the NOI because you believe they represent you or your group is, in EVERY way, as disgusting as the old white bigot who defended the KKK....and equally pathetic, as well."
In conclusion all I have to say is this...
I'm not defending anyone, which includes the NOI or any other so-called "radical Black organization". I merely object to your idea of equating them with radical "White supremacist" groups...which is an inaccurate and disingenuous comparison of the two.
Frankly, I could care less what you think. Furthermore, because you admit that you're a liar, there no need for you to "openly" defend KKK. That fact alone makes you a "disgusting old white bigot", only cloaked in deception.
(much like the "new David Duke/Jared Taylor/Council of Conservative Citizens "Klan")
"...I merely object to your idea of equating them with radical "White supremacist" groups...." (PAA)
And because they are exactly equivalent, THAT fact makes you a vicarious defender of bigotry and a racial bigot yourself.
And NO, it’s NOT the Detroit Police Dept who is charged with disgracing Detroit, it’s Kwame Kilpatrick, the disgraced and now (thanks to a plea deal) ex-Mayor of Detroit.
It’s kind of a funny story, actually. I have a friend in East Lansing, so I get the updates regularly.
This past March, the Detroit Free Press reported that, “Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick was charged with perjury, obstruction of justice, misconduct in office and other criminal counts on Monday. The charges arise from his decision to have the city of Detroit, which is nearly bankrupt, pay millions of dollars in hush money to several former policemen whose eyewitness accounts of Kilpatrick’s behavior would be politically damaging.
“Last October, the Detroit City Council approved an $8.4 million settlement with the three policemen, Gary Brown, Harold Nelthorpe and Walter Harris, after the mayor suddenly dropped his opposition to any such compromise. In January, the Detroit Free Press began publishing extensive excerpts of text messages by Kilpatrick and Beatty, sent out over their city-owned cell phones, which confirmed both their affair and the retaliatory firing of the policemen.”
In 2002, promptly after being elected mayor of Detroit, Kwame Kilpatrick allegedly throws a party, with strippers, at his state-owned official residence, the Manoogian Mansion. According to former members of his Executive Protection Unit (EPU), his wife Carlita comes home to find Kwame with the strippers and attacks one of the girls.
In the subsequent investigations, Kilpatrick is found out to have charged over $210,000 in credit card bills. To date he’s ended up paying the city back only $9,000.
Then, in 2003, Detroit Officer Harold C. Nelthrope contacted the internal affairs unit of the Detroit Police, about the party and other abuses committed by Kilpatricks’s EPU members.
Mayor Kilpatrick denied all allegations and dismisses the party as a rumor. He went on to say that he does not have “lewd parties,” “I don’t whore around on my wife” and “I want people to understand that I would never disrespect my God, my wife or my children”.
FUNNY stuff!
Nelthrope and Gary A. Brown, head of the internal affairs unit are fired. They allege they got the axe for their participation in Kilpatrick’s investigation. Then the pair sue the city of Detroit, in what is known as the Whistleblower Trial, eventually winning an $8.4 million settlement.
Two additional officers come forth with claims of retaliation: Walt Harris and Alvin Bowman. Harris was a former EPU member who was identified as cooperating with the Manoogian investigation, which resulted in Harris suffering a smear campaign by Kilpatrick administration.
Amazingly enough ALL of this has stemmed from the murder of Tamara “Strawberry” Greene, 27, an exotic dancer who was said to have been a performer at the Manoogian Mansion party. She was found dead after being shot 18 times. Witnesses describe it as a targeted hit. The bullets are found to have belonged to the same types of guns issued by the Detroit Police Department. Bowman, (listed above) who was working this case, was transferred out of the homicide unit after discovering these facts and attempting to connect the dots.
So, it seems that Detroit cops merely "doing their jobs" (investigating wrong-doing) were retaliated against by a rogue politician...this Kwame Kilpatrick guy.
Again, FUNNY stuff.
JMK;"Nelthrope and Gary A. Brown, head of the internal affairs unit are fired"
For a guy that claims to be so smart, "common sense" is definitly not your strong suit!
If Brown and Nelthorpe were fired for doing what "good" officers are supposed to do, what makes you think they were replaced by "Serpico and his blessed Angels"!!!??? Kwame fired them, so would it not be obvious he would replace them with...ah...let's just say "not-so-good-officers"???
JMK;"And NO, it’s NOT the Detroit Police Dept who is charged with disgracing Detroit."
JMK, I live in Detroit. I was born here and I've lived here for the vast majority of my adult life. I went to Elementary, Middle, High School and College right here in Detroit. Since this is a public forum, all I will say is that I know what goes on here a lot better than you'll ever know...and I'll leave it at that...
Just continue to get your "updates" from your E. Lansing connection. I'm sure he'll have plenty more forthcoming...
"For a guy that claims to be so smart, "common sense" is definitly not your strong suit!
"If Brown and Nelthorpe were fired for doing what "good" officers are supposed to do, what makes you think they were replaced by "Serpico and his blessed Angels"!!!??? Kwame fired them, so would it not be obvious he would replace them with...ah...let's just say "not-so-good-officers"???" (PAA)
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They were WRONGLY fired, by this thug Kwame Fitzpatrick, or Kill-patrick, or whatever.
They sued over their wronful termination.
They were vindicated and the City of Detroit had to fork over $8.4 MILLION.
We seem to agree that the Detroit Police are the good guys in all this.
Kwame Gilpatrick or Fitz-whatever had cops fired for daring to investigate his wrong-doing.
$8.4 MILLION of the hardworking people of Detroit's money thrown away because of a scumbag like Kwame Lilpatrick, or Fitz-whocares!
Better you than me is all I can say.
Detroit's already teetering on bankruptcy and this thug-Mayor throws lewd parties, whores around on his wife and possibly hires a hit on a stripper and then GOES AFTER THE COPS WHO INVESTIGATED ALL THIS!!!
The way I see it, Police Departments (NY's and Detroit's) - 2 and hate-groups like the KKK, the NOI, the Aryan Nation and ACORN - 0.
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